[fearlessknight]

I for one do not and will never agree with muzzles (for any reason)....law or just because....especially not for this breed.

While PART (a very small one) of me thinks that it is responsible on the owners part to have their dog muzzled (for reasons such as DA)

While some dogs ARE HA, they, IMO, should be PTS...and dogs that are DA, should be controlled by the owner, if they are not able to do so, then they should not be able to own the breed. BUT, for all of those idiots with HA dogs and all of those idiots, who have no clue what their dog is capable of, I see fit......just not by law, by common sense.


Then th other part (the bigger) says that it really makes the breed look bad.....

It says, IMO,

We have to be muzzled so we won't kill anyone, the law says so if we want to live!
To me thats how it looks....why, you may ask?

Because when people see them muzzled they say "I sure am glad that thing has a muzzle, I would hate to die today"

or

"All of THOSE dogs should have to be muzzled mandatory, they bite too much"

so for those reasons alone, I do not like them...mainly for this breed and the mix....


so what do you all think and why?

[CoolHandJean]

I personally hate muzzles, and I hate the laws that require dogs to be muzzled, especially for our breed, because like you said, it sends the wrong message. When I see an APBT muzzled (not required by law), I think those people have a dog that shouldn't be living (because I assume which is wrong I know, but what can I say, that the dog has HA).

[fearlessknight]

Originally Posted by CoolHandJean I personally hate muzzles, and I hate the laws that require dogs to be muzzled, especially for our breed, because like you said, it sends the wrong message. When I see an APBT muzzled (not required by law), I think those people have a dog that shouldn't be living (because I assume which is wrong I know, but what can I say, that the dog has HA).

At least I am not alone!

[BlueRose_Kennel]

The muzzle, like so many other "tools" has it's place and can, when used correctly, benifit both dog and owner. (I don't own or use on on eaither of my dogs but this is just my oppinion.)

[jeoestreich]

Originally Posted by CoolHandJean I personally hate muzzles, and I hate the laws that require dogs to be muzzled, especially for our breed, because like you said, it sends the wrong message. When I see an APBT muzzled (not required by law), I think those people have a dog that shouldn't be living (because I assume which is wrong I know, but what can I say, that the dog has HA).

I also agree with this. I just do not like muzzles at all.

[renae_nae]

Originally Posted by CoolHandJean I personally hate muzzles, and I hate the laws that require dogs to be muzzled, especially for our breed, because like you said, it sends the wrong message. When I see an APBT muzzled (not required by law), I think those people have a dog that shouldn't be living (because I assume which is wrong I know, but what can I say, that the dog has HA).

I feel the same way...I have to muzzle mine because I live on a military base that requires it. I get dirty looks all the time because of it, but I use it for educating people too. I do use muzzles though when I'm bringing a new dog into the house (ie, never met my dogs, I don't really know the dog). But then everyone gets muzzled.

[bahamutt99]

After having lived somewhere that a muzzle was mandatory, I find them personally offensive. Not insofar as someone else chooses to muzzle their own dog, but I am personally repulsed by the idea of muzzling my own dogs. I can't stand it. I think if our country was like others where dogs routinely wear muzzles and are allowed in more places because of it, I would be a bit more accepting. But when Americans see a muzzle, they think "mean dog," and I will not be one to perpetuate that stereotype. (Not to mention my dog just flat doesn't like wearing a muzzle.)

[Arrowhead]

I live in a town where muzzles are required at a certain event just 'cause a couple of dogs got loose from their property, ran over to the event, and attacked an animal there. Even though there was never an incident with dogs that were brought to the event. So now everyone with Pit Bulls, Shepherds, Chows, Dobies, Rotties, or dogs that looks like any of these breeds, has to wear a muzzle to this event. It's really stupid and makes no sense that dogs at this event have to be muzzled, when it wasn't dogs that were taken to the event that caused the trouble.
These dogs with muzzles are given hard stares and wide berths, and the owners have to listen to the comments of "mean dog," when this was never the case before. I also think it opens the door to a city wide muzzling requirement.

[fearlessknight]

Originally Posted by Arrowhead I live in a town where muzzles are required at a certain event just 'cause a couple of dogs got loose from their property, ran over to the event, and attacked an animal there. Even though there was never an incident with dogs that were brought to the event. So now everyone with Pit Bulls, Shepherds, Chows, Dobies, Rotties, or dogs that looks like any of these breeds, has to wear a muzzle to this event. It's really stupid and makes no sense that dogs at this event have to be muzzled, when it wasn't dogs that were taken to the event that caused the trouble. These dogs with muzzles are given hard stares and wide berths, and the owners have to listen to the comments of "mean dog," when this was never the case before. I also think it opens the door to a city wide muzzling requirement.

I know what you mean......It is hard to believe that the law allows discrimination.....(not comparing people to dogs, but in sense, I am)

I mean think about it.....

If the law were to ban a "certain type" of person, because one or two of their kind did something bad, unforgivable, whatever you wish...then there would be no race left on this earth.....

[megschristina]

I say DEATH TO ALL MUZZLES!!!! (unless were at the vet with my seventeen year old mutt, she gets a little bitchy)

[Teal]

My reasoning is simple - if your dog needs to be muzzled in order to be safe in public, either NEVER take the dog in public (there ARE other ways to exercise a dog) or put it to sleep... depending on the reason for owning/education the owner has/etc. etc.

As far as mandatory muzzle laws... abso-frikkin-lutely ridiculous. You might as well brand your dog across its whole said with, "I AM VICIOUS!" because that is ALL people see when they see a muzzled dog.

I would NEVER muzzle my dog inn public. If a dog of mine had an issue at the vet or whathaveyou where they routinely muzzle aggressive animals based on action and not breed, that issue would have to be worked out before I'll take the dog to the vet for something non-life threatening.

I am NOT going to fuel that fire by living in an area that requires bulldogs to be muzzled. If you don't like something, don't participate!

[fearlessknight]

Originally Posted by megschristina I say DEATH TO ALL MUZZLES!!!! (unless were at the vet with my seventeen year old mutt, she gets a little bitchy)

LMAO...now thats funny

[Zoe]

I muzzle Tank. With him it IS necessary. He is a 95 pound dog, and I don't care how much training is put into him, if a loose dog runs up to him {and we get plenty of them around here} he WILL grab it, period. His prey/fight drive is just too intense to dumb it down with training when it comes to a strange dog charging at him. He can completely over power me and when he's in "mode" good luck stopping him. This is the ONLY dog I have never been able to break off of the spring pole with a breaking stick because his bite is so strong. I seriously have had male friends walk him and have to hand him back because they can't handle his strength. With one of his previous owners, the idiot let him get loose and he grabbed a rotti walking by with his owner and they were beating him with golf clubs and he still wouldn't let go. He may be 95 pounds but he's not one of those "can't function" dogs due to his size. He's proportioned, powerful, can hop a six foot fence like it's nothing! lol Tanks not a dog for the feint of heart and I love him enough TO muzzle him. Which would look worse? Me walking Tank down the street with a muzzle, or him gutting a dog on the street in front of the whole neighborhood?

I hate forced muzzle laws for dogs that don't need it, but there are those dogs that do and I won't hesitate to use one. To me, it's a tool, no different than a crate, a tie up {and we know the prejudice people who use them face!}, a leash, a prong collar, etc... I'll use whatever tools I need to use, to keep my dogs safe and out of trouble, public opinion be damned.

I usually bring one with me when I walk Bailey if I see any loose dogs as she's the same as Tank. If a dog rushes her, she'll grab it, but she's only 48 pounds so a hell of a lot easier to handle. If I was in Vancouver with Bailey, I'd muzzle her though. It's ridiculous for a big city, how many people have their dogs loose, like right on the main drag! It's messed up and actually one of the reasons I left Vancouver. Damn hippies and their dogs!

Actually, I've had people react very positively to him being muzzled believe it or not. It has been a great conversation starter, especially because I'm pretty well known in my neighborhood, walking with the kids and dogs and I think I'm pretty approachable in general. I've had many a conversation started which has allowed me to explain about the breed, the difference between HA/DA, etc.... There used to be a muzzle law in this city, so many people are used to seeing pit bulls muzzled and I'm sure many don't realize the law was dropped.

In fact, not too long ago, I was walking him and someone was walking two large dogs and one of them snapped their leash and came charging aggressively and went at Tank. I am SO glad he was muzzled because what was a two second scuffle that ended in many apologies by the dogs owner and a simple tooth gouge on Tank, could have ended in a blood bath right outside the cop shop! Wouldn't that have been LOVELY.

Originally Posted by Teal My reasoning is simple - if your dog needs to be muzzled in order to be safe in public, either NEVER take the dog in public (there ARE other ways to exercise a dog) or put it to sleep... depending on the reason for owning/education the owner has/etc. etc.

I actually had an person say something like this to me when we took Tank for a walk around the a lake one day and I thought it was really unfair. Here I am, being responsible, muzzling him so this idiots dog is safe, who was illegally off leash I might add, and I'm still getting looked down on for doing it? Tank has just as much right as any dog to enjoy life. It's not his fault he is DA, and for the breed, I don't fault him for it. He LOVES walks. There isn't ANYTHING he gets more excited about. In fact, when I grab his muzzle, he does the big wiggle dance and is beside himself with joy to be getting out and about and seeing the world, meeting people. It's not just about exercise, but socializing, training and mental stimulation. If he was stuck in the house and yard his whole life, well, I just don't think that is right or fair to him.

He IS a great ambassadog in so many ways, even with the muzzle on, maybe even more so, as he's helping to demystify the whole dog aggression issue. People see how friendly he is with people, how much he dotes on the kids and they see how much we love him, and how we are willing to do what needs to be done to keep him out of trouble. I think we are setting a good example, muzzle and all. Maybe even a better one, BECAUSE we muzzle him.

[Chiapit]

Great post Zoe!!

[Arrowhead]

I have nothing against muzzling a dog if it's DA and is too strong to be easily kept under control when it's in the "zone"...it's the responsible thing to do. I just don't like the assumptions that the dogs are HA because they're wearing one. Nor do I like forced muzzling because of what irresponsible people (the ones who usually have their dogs off leash) did to cause the muzzling law in the first place.

[CoolHandJean]

Good points, Zoe. Those are some things I hadn't considered.

[fearlessknight]

Originally Posted by CoolHandJean Good points, Zoe. Those are some things I hadn't considered.

They are good points.....but my problem is how it makes the breed look in the publics eyes....regardless....

But nevertheless, it was a very good post.

[Rai_77]

I do not agree with laws that require specific breeds to be muzzled. Anything with teeth can bite, and if you are really that concerned with dogs biting people out in public (and how often does that really happen, anyway?)...muzzle everything from Tosas to Poms!

I use one when I bring my boy into the livingroom because of prior incidents with my cats. We've done all kinds of training with him, with great results, however, this is not a dog that chases, stalks, or otherwise harasses cats. It's when the cats run in front of him that he gets excited and decides that he must taste one. And I have three cats. And they fight sometimes, and I'm just not willing to take the chance that in that split second that I'm not staring at him, one of the cats runs over his head and is back in his mouth.

I do try to make the muzzling experience as positive as possible for him. He actually gets excited when he sees it, because he knows he gets to come out front and hang out with everyone else. I also try to do as many things outside of the house with him as possible, so he gets plenty of time one on one with me.

My other dog is alpha, always has been, and maybe that makes a difference with how a dog feels when muzzled. I imagine if he was alpha, muzzled around lower-ranking dogs, that might cause more mental anguish.

[Zoe]

Originally Posted by Arrowhead because of what irresponsible people (the ones who usually have their dogs off leash) did to cause the muzzling law in the first place.

You know, this is what is so frustrating with Tank. If OTHER people would follow the damn leash laws, I wouldn't have to muzzle him as I've worked really hard on his training and teaching him to mind me and ignore other dogs, etc... he can actually behave if a dog is in view but not approaching him. I spent months walking by the car lots here as they have guard dogs that go ballistic every time anyone goes by. I started out on the other side of the street and gradually worked him up to being able to walk on the opposite side of me, but on the same side of the street as the guard dogs. He walks on tip toe the whole time whining, but he doesn't lunge or pull and minds my commands. It's not easy muzzling him. I've had a hell of a time trying to find a muzzle that he can wear and still breath properly, but will still work if a loose dog came up to him. I can't walk him for very long especially during the day as he will overheat not being able to fully open his mouth to pant as he gets so bloody worked up just with the excitement of being out and about. I actually just ordered ANOTHER muzzle online to see if I can find a better option for him.

The reality though is that I can't control what other people do with their dogs, but I can control my dogs so I do what I feel is not only best for the breed, but best for my individual dog. Thanx to the idiot who used to own him, he already has a record in another city, so him getting in trouble ANYWHERE is not an option as they have his microchip on file. I just don't take any chances with him. I love him too much to loose him. If I follow the laws according to my city I live in now, I am still required by law, to muzzle Tank, as he is classed as a dangerous dog, even though none of this occurred since I've owned him, I still feel following the law is the responsible thing to do, especially considering the larger picture.

"Dangerous Dog" means a dog which meets any one or more or the following conditions:


(b)a dog that, while running at large, has attacked, bitten, killed or caused injury to a domestic animal;


(d)a dog that, while running at large, has aggressively pursued or harassed a domestic animal;

[Loki]

I agree with so many of these posts! I don't agree with mandantory muzzle laws. It does give the wrong impression of many wonderful breeds. And if your dog needs to be muzzled just to go out of your yard due to HA, it doesn't need to go out of your yard or sadly needs to be put down. Although with DA, from what I've heard, it's natural in some animals? Seems as though muzzling them then when out would be being responsible as well as respectful of others' pet's safety. Loki appeared to be DA at first but I've found that with slow and careful introduction to other dogs, he gets to where he whines to go out and play with them rather than hurt them. We have had to muzzle Loki once due to medicating his ear mites. He had scratched his ear until he made a sore. I wouldn't want somebody touching a sore on me either so we muzzled him for both his and our safety. But it was only for a couple minutes until we got the medicine in his ears. And as for rescues refusing adoption due to muzzle laws in their area, they should check out the situation better before completly refusing the adoption. Many wonderful dogs are dying due to problems such as this.