[fearlessknight]

There is a thread going right now and this was brought up, seems to be causing a little confusion.

Here is the question...

Is it ALWAYS the owners fault for an unsound dog? Or does breeding unsound/stable dogs ALSO play its part?

Can you breed 2 human aggressive dogs and blame the owner that bought a pup from that litter for it biting their child or a neighbor?

Lets hear what you think AND WHY!

[kiaransimba]

Me personally think that it is both and I think that because genetics plays a part in this dog becoming HA, its not just the person that bought the pup. But the person that bought the pup should also be responsible and PTS if this ever happens. I don't think that you can balme the owner soley for this. JMO

[CoolHandJean]

The Genetics play a big part that is for sure....
However, if the owner isn't playing attention to warning signs of unsound dog, they are also at fault...
But yeah, I agree it isn't always the owner's fault if a dog is HA...But it is also the owner's fault if that HA dog bites someone, because they weren't watching the signs.

[luvapit]

I also believe it is both, the breeder is responsible to some extent if they bred unsound dogs. But, the new owner should have realized these other dogs were not sound and not to buy a puppy from that breeder. Once the owner has the puppy, they should know the difference between normal and abnormal puppy behavior, or at least consult a behavioralist, or someone with experiance and ask questions. Once the dog becomes vicious, regardless as to how it was raised or bred, it is the owner's responsibility to do the right thing: EUTHANIZE that dog. As soon as the owner is irresponsible like that, it is their own damn fault. The dog displayed warning signs, and they did not take heed. If more people were responsible enough to know what to look for in a puppy and parents, the BYB/puppymills breeding unsound/sub-par dogs would HOPEFULLY stop breeding 'cause no one is buying the pups (or at least it would be nice if it happened that way)

[fearlessknight]

Originally Posted by luvapit Even when genetics do play a role, it is the owner's responsibility for now the owner should have seen the signs that their dog is not mentally stable and should have used caution when out with the dog. If the owner does not know the difference between a sound and an unsound dog, why do they have one?

The problem still goes back to a bad breeder, not always...nothing is always!
How would an owner of a NEW dog know the signs the dog has for biting.....the dog bites the first time, how was anyone supposed to know.
I agree that the owner should know the signs, but you know nothing from/of anything that has never been displayed before, or that is new to you. Not only that, all dogs do not always show signs of anything......they CAN bite and react without displaying and odd behavior.

[BlueBullyBabe]

It is the -breeders- responsibility IF they choose to breed DA dogs to tell the prospective buyers about the problem. I agree that a new dog owner would have a hard time telling the difference between puppy play/biting and DA. That being said I believe it is also the -owners- responsibility to train the dog, get into puppy classes and learn what to watch for.

[fearlessknight]

Originally Posted by BlueBullyBabe It is the -breeders- responsibility IF they choose to breed DA dogs to tell the prospective buyers about the problem. I agree that a new dog owner would have a hard time telling the difference between puppy play/biting and DA. That being said I believe it is also the -owners- responsibility to train the dog, get into puppy classes and learn what to watch for.

PLease tell me you meant HA..human aggressive...not DA..dog aggressive????

[kiaransimba]

I was thinking the same thing FK

[luvapit]

Originally Posted by fearlessknight The problem still goes back to a bad breeder, not always...nothing is always! How would an owner of a NEW dog know the signs the dog has for biting.....the dog bites the first time, how was anyone supposed to know. I agree that the owner should know the signs, but you know nothing from/of anything that has never been displayed before, or that is new to you. Not only that, all dogs do not always show signs of anything......they CAN bite and react without displaying and odd behavior.

Hmmmm....now you do have me thinking. I'm sure I am going to learn a lot about this on this thread. I'm not sure how to answer this, I will think on it, and give you an answer when I come up with one, lol

Originally Posted by BlueBullyBabe It is the -breeders- responsibility IF they choose to breed DA dogs to tell the prospective buyers about the problem. I agree that a new dog owner would have a hard time telling the difference between puppy play/biting and DA. That being said I believe it is also the -owners- responsibility to train the dog, get into puppy classes and learn what to watch for.

I really hope you meant HA?

[fearlessknight]

Originally Posted by luvapit Hmmmm....now you do have me thinking. I'm sure I am going to learn a lot about this on this thread. I'm not sure how to answer this, I will think on it, and give you an answer when I come up with one, lol I really hope you meant HA?

Live and learn........... Thats the way we all do it!

[ad_shannon]

Originally Posted by CoolHandJean The Genetics play a big part that is for sure.... However, if the owner isn't playing attention to warning signs of unsound dog, they are also at fault... But yeah, I agree it isn't always the owner's fault if a dog is HA...But it is also the owner's fault if that HA dog bites someone, because they weren't watching the signs.

Exactly

[kiaransimba]

but like FK stated earlier not all dogs show signs of when they are going to "get" a person. So how can you watch the signs if there aren't any?

[fearlessknight]

Originally Posted by ad_shannon Exactly

Wow.....some people do not listen...All dogs do not and will not always show signs......so how will you know......are you psychic?

[ad_shannon]

Originally Posted by fearlessknight Wow.....some people do not listen...All Dogs Do not and will not always show signs.......so how will you know......are you psychic?

NO I AM NOT

Which is why I always take extra precautions with my dog to ensure that this doesn't happen

[fearlessknight]

If we need to go through English lessons, I do not mind, as I have to do them everyday as part of my job!

An "unstable" dog means JUST THAT....it is unstable, it is unpredictable...that means, YOU NEVER KNOW WHAT IT WILL DO OR HOW IT WILL DO IT OR WHEN IT WILL DO IT.........that means, they will not always show signs of anything for any reason....

Does that help at all?

[CoolHandJean]

Originally Posted by fearlessknight the dog bites the first time, how was anyone supposed to know. I agree that the owner should know the signs, but you know nothing from/of anything that has never been displayed before, or that is new to you. Not only that, all dogs do not always show signs of anything......they CAN bite and react without displaying and odd behavior.

Good point.

[ad_shannon]

I would like to quote someone knowledgable on the breed

Donna Reynolds director of BAD RAP (Bay Area Doglovers Responsible About Pitbulls)
taken out of a magazine article about this breeds aggression:

"We've known many dogs straight from fighting lines that were able to enjoy dog friends and just as many dogs bred for dog tolerance that grew up to be the opposite."

Now I understand that she is talking about dog aggression here but let me ask you, if there can be so much of a difference between pups coming from parents who were hand picked and pedigreed, what makes you think that you are going to know the exact response your animal may have to ANY situation?

All I am trying to say here is that even though breeding does play a role different pups can turn out to have different temperments. You have to be aware of the possibility that your dog may not have the temperment that both of its parents may have had, good or bad

[BlueBullyBabe]

HA/DA either way.

[fearlessknight]

Originally Posted by BlueBullyBabe HA/DA either way.

NO MA'AM........you are wrong....

DA is a natural trait that this breed carries, if you do not like or do not want it, then I advise you find yourself another breed.....
DA is normal, HA is not..for any breed....

[CoolHandJean]

Originally Posted by fearlessknight NO MA'AM........you are wrong.... DA is a natural trait that this breed carries, if you do not like or do not want it, then I advise you find yourself another breed..... DA is normal, HA is not..for any breed....

Ditto.