[Chicagodoll6]

I'm having a problem with the "Sit" command with a 5 year old Pit Bull that my dad owns and I am starting to work with.

Starting 3 weeks ago, I have been taking out "Bruiser" for short daily lessons. We don't have much information on the dog, so there is no way of telling how much obedience training he has had or how little. He heels pretty well...I have only been training him on this for a couple of weeks and he knows what he needs to do. Getting him to sit while on the leash is a different story. My Dad showed me how to pull up on the leash while pushing down on the dog's hindquarters, and we executed it pretty efficiently for the most part. However, in the past week it is seemingly impossibly to get him to sit. My Dad thinks it might be that I'm not pulling up on the lead correctly, but I don't think I'm not doing anything now that I was doing a few weeks ago. He says just to push down and....make him sit?
I'm a 21 year old 5'3" 110 girl and I can push down all I want or even sit on his butt(I haven't done that, obviously, but I'm sure I could) and I couldn't get him to sit. With how sturdy I've found his hind legs to be, I could ride him around bareback and probably not hurt him...ha.
After failed attempts I have also tried to take a few more steps forward to straighten him back out and try to get his attention, but still, the same scenario...I push, I pull up on the collar, and stiffer his legs become.
Additionally, there is only so much I am willing to push because I am not extremely acquainted with the dog and he has an independent personality that I only want to test to an extent. I don't want to piss him off by pushing on his hindquarters so much that he whips around and snaps at me.
The catch to this is that as soon as I have him back in his pen with the leash off of him, he knows EXACTLY what the sit command means. As soon as he hears it he sits down and starts looking at me like he's going to charge at me if I don't give him a treat.
What gives?
I assumed that he just wasn't paying attention to me on lead....that he was paying attention to the physical commands of the collar and not my voice...but he DOES respond to my verbal command "Heel" now, without me yanking the leash. So this signals that he is listening to my voice...yet "Sit" doesn't excite him when he's outside of his cage.
Good god if someone has some advice I could use it.

[LittleMissE]

Try working with dog treats if you aren't already doing that. Sorry I am kinda new to the whole thing as well so I can't be much help but I am sure some experienced members will let you know all the things you should try and do!

[Rai_77]

Don't push down on his rear. Cup him from below while pressing inward on his back legs.

What kind of training collar are you using?

Are you following the proper command sequence? It is 'sit', 'no', 'sit', 'no' when he doesn't do what you ask, then you should be walking toward him to enforce it. Do not repeat his name or sit, sit, sit over and over.

[Holly's Rangie]

If I were you, I would try using treats. I am about the same size as you are, and there is no way you are going to push his butt down. That also doesn't really get the message through to him. If a dog is food motivated, you won't have to worry about forcing him to do the command, he will do it for the treat! Think of it like this - a dog is like what we used to call a teeter totter or sea saw on the playground - if the head goes up, the butt goes down. Hold the treat at his nose and then bring it straight up. When he puts his butt down (all the way down) give him the treat. Do this a couple of times, then give the command "sit" as you do it. You may also wish to pair a physical signal with the spoken command. Some dogs are able to pick up on the physical signal before they figure out the verbal command. Also this allows you to give the command silently or can help if the dog loses hearing later in life. We use the back of the hand raised with the thumb tucked in, but any signal you choose will do fine. Keep up with it, and he will have it in no time. Once he figures it out, you can make him sit for anything. Our dogs must sit before getting fed, coming out of the crate, and receiving petting and attention from people.

[Chicagodoll6]

Originally Posted by Rai_77 Don't push down on his rear. Cup him from below while pressing inward on his back legs. What kind of training collar are you using? Are you following the proper command sequence? It is 'sit', 'no', 'sit', 'no' when he doesn't do what you ask, then you should be walking toward him to enforce it. Do not repeat his name or sit, sit, sit over and over.

What do you mean by 'cup'? Makes sense, although that may complicate things for me because he will probably start turning around to see why I'm touching him back there.

The problem is that he knows how to sit but pays no mind to the command on lead possibly because he knows he's not getting a treat(i was following the old rule of not giving treats until the lesson is over) or maybe he doesn't understand the consistency of the command and thinks it means something else on lead?

I am using a prong collar and he responds very well to it without me having to pull or put any pressure on it, just the normal quick snap-and I usually don't snap very hard as I do not want to hurt him or make him uncomfortable, just correct him.

[Chicagodoll6]

Originally Posted by Holly's Rangie If I were you, I would try using treats. I am about the same size as you are, and there is no way you are going to push his butt down. That also doesn't really get the message through to him. If a dog is food motivated, you won't have to worry about forcing him to do the command, he will do it for the treat! Think of it like this - a dog is like what we used to call a teeter totter or sea saw on the playground - if the head goes up, the butt goes down. Hold the treat at his nose and then bring it straight up. When he puts his butt down (all the way down) give him the treat. Do this a couple of times, then give the command "sit" as you do it. You may also wish to pair a physical signal with the spoken command. Some dogs are able to pick up on the physical signal before they figure out the verbal command. Also this allows you to give the command silently or can help if the dog loses hearing later in life. We use the back of the hand raised with the thumb tucked in, but any signal you choose will do fine. Keep up with it, and he will have it in no time. Once he figures it out, you can make him sit for anything. Our dogs must sit before getting fed, coming out of the crate, and receiving petting and attention from people.

I will probably use treats next. I have tried to refrain from it this far(except after the lesson-when he responds to the command 'sit') because he gets WAY <b>TOO</b> excited when he hears the sit command because he knows he's getting treats. It's difficult to keep him sitting while handing the treat to him. I of course don't give it to him until he stays sitting, but I have had a conflict of reason in the past because he looks at my hand as if he'll fight the treat out of it if I don't give it to him.
I think the problem with his excitement will work out in time but this is why I have refrained from using treats in his lesson.

[Holly's Rangie]

Ahh yes, treat excitement. I know that one very well. We also used praise with our 3 year old lab/pit mix when we were training. We used praise as the main "treat" once he understood what we were asking him to do. We then would randomly give treats for executing the command during the lesson, that way he never knew when he was going to get one. I think physiologists call this intermittent reward. They say it is the most powerful form of reward - rats will push a bar to get a pellet on this kind of reward system until they literally will die of exhaustion. Crazy, huh? Anyway, you may want to try that.

It also sounds like to me that since he is soooo food motivated, you might want to try to up what is expected of him. He obviously knows if he sits he gets a treat. You may want to make him work a little harder with a sit/stay kind of thing.

By the way, what kind of treat are you using. If it is a highly motivational treat (something that is meat based) you might want to back down to a treat that is less motivational (something made with flour and cheese) for the less demanding commands. We up the treat motivation the harder a command gets or if the dog gets bored or frustrated with the lesson.

Hope this helps, if not, just let me know and I will stop throwing in my two cents!