[Michele]

Should a breeder be considered a hoarder if he has a certain amount of dogs on his yard and how many is too many?

[Rai_77]

IMO.....you become a hoarder when you are unable to properly care for all the pets you have. If you have 45 dogs and have the money/time to care for them, that is one thing. But if you have 45 dogs and they are sleeping in their own feces and you "bury" the casualities in a special trap door under your bed....you are probably a hoarder.

And also....you are a hoarder if you are already at your limit, and you continue to take more on, despite knowing full well you can't care for them.

[Grizzly]

Well I'm assuming this thread was started due to my reply as to why anyone would have 150 dogs in their yard. One reply given was simply "they were dog lovers", my answer was "maybe they have OCD( once again sarcasm). Now my feelings, and it's only my opinion is this. If the owner of 150 dogs is a breeder, how many dogs is he/she cranking out in a years time? I've known several "respectable" breeders and they will generally have a few good studs and a few good bitches...not alot ( as in 150) but a few. Now far be it from me to say how many is too many...oh hell that would surely have someone saying I was trying to strip away their God given rights and freedoms. But a breeder with 150 dogs sounds excessive to me, almost like a puppy mill. Now on top of that, when the dogs just happen to be PIT BULLS...the most vicious, bloodthirsty, ferocious, existing only to kill and hated dog in the world ( according to the media), what kind of image does this "breeder" create for himself? And it IS the dogs wrongful image that is destroying it. I cannot and will not judge as to the level of care this many dogs receive, I'm sure they can be decently provided for. But again if this person is a so-called breeder how many pups are produced in a years time and why truthfully would someone need 100-150 dogs to breed pit bulls. That is placing a lot of dogs in the hands of people who I'm sure at times are going to be very irresponsible...maybe even fight their dogs...but then again all this is only my opinion.

[tat2stuff]

apples and oranges...I can't see how you (not you specifically Michele) could even compare the 2. Hording is an uncontrollable disorder, breeding is usually a money making en devour or a passion to improve a breed of dog.

here's a definition of hoarding I found...

Hoarding is often a specific symptom of OCD which results in people keeping large amounts of items that to the outside world are considered excessive or worthless/useless. It is also still being researched much and surrounded with much secrecy and shame.
But read some of the figures below and you will soon realize that if you are here because you Hoard, you are certainly not alone in this.
Is important to realize however that Hoarding isn't solely linked or associated to OCD, and can be found independently but cause equal distress.

Many Elderly people deal with Hoarding and may have had a life- time of accumulating stuff that gradually got worse as they got older. Often this leaves the by then grown- up children to deal or face with the actions of their elderly parents.

For those who hoard, it creates a vicious circle in which they almost literally become trapped. The mess will or can become so dominant that their self- esteem and social life will/may suffer from it. Simple things such as no longer feeling they can invite people over and with that, an important motivation for people to keep their house clean will disappear.
Of course, Hoarding like any other aspects of OCD, exists in different degrees.

But the severe cases of Hoarding may truly devastate a person's life if no help is sought.
They feel shame and this shame will gradually evolve into isolation.
Hiding 1's behavior seems to be the only possible solution. But how do you hide sometimes very omni- present and visible clutter/mess from the outside world.
You can't, so you have to resort to blocking out the outside world from your inside world.
Living amongst "junk" is not accepted in our society. Hoarding labels a person to be without any discipline, a person that is messy and it's not just that.
This is a real disorder, not someone that is just unwilling because they are lazy.

(Living in a messy surrounding will in most cases mean something isn't going right. This may be a depression, a lack of self- respect or no reason for caring anymore. So looking into the Why's of excessive mess may be helpful.).

NOTE: Someone that lives amongst junk isn't per se someone that has OCD. If you find living this way is not a free choice, leave it to the professionals to help you to find out why you are and what you could do to break free from this pattern.
You can get help for this, but look for help for the correct problem.

• Hoarding & Saving Symptoms are found in 18% to 42% of OCD patients. But most people who Hoard will also exhibit OCD symptoms.
  Less than 1% of the population Hoards (Non clinical populations are also known to Hoard.).
• There are other mental disorders in which Hoarding Behavior is seen, such as.: Anorexia Nervosa, Dementia and sometimes Psychotic Disorders.
  The differences between these types are not know yet.
• 4 keywords that are found when talking about Hoarding are.: Indecisiveness, Perfectionism, Procrastination, Avoidance.
• This is a symptom that is known to be difficult to treat, especially if there is little willingness to change.
• The usual medications that can help with/for many other OCD- symptoms seem to be less effective for treating hoarding. Same goes for the ERP that is traditionally used to treat OCD when it comes to therapies. But an adapted form of ERP is being developed of which the results will still have to be looked in to more thoroughly.
• The primary reasons for Hoarding are Biologically based rather than psychological. But studies ( By Dr. Randy Frost.) have shown that no real cause can be determined yet.
• BT ( Behavior Therapy.) does prove to show some benefits. But like mentioned above, do Hoarders not benefit greatly from the traditional treatments for OCD.

[bahamutt99]

Originally Posted by Rai_77 IMO.....you become a hoarder when you are unable to properly care for all the pets you have. If you have 45 dogs and have the money/time to care for them, that is one thing. But if you have 45 dogs and they are sleeping in their own feces and you "bury" the casualities in a special trap door under your bed....you are probably a hoarder. And also....you are a hoarder if you are already at your limit, and you continue to take more on, despite knowing full well you can't care for them.

Says it all right there.

[airwalk]

I agree and hoarders can be breeders and breeders can be hoarders those terms are not mutually exclusive.

[CynthiaATL]

Originally Posted by Rai_77 IMO.....you become a hoarder when you are unable to properly care for all the pets you have. If you have 45 dogs and have the money/time to care for them, that is one thing. But if you have 45 dogs and they are sleeping in their own feces and you "bury" the casualities in a special trap door under your bed....you are probably a hoarder. And also....you are a hoarder if you are already at your limit, and you continue to take more on, despite knowing full well you can't care for them.

I agree with everything but the bolded. the reason being is that like Rockstar said that most ppl do not have a crematorium in the back yard. Where I work in FL many chose to bring their animals home to be buried. And it is legal to do so in many areas. And you have to remember these large yards are usually in rural areas. And if one has been breeding for 20+ years they may have many buried on their property. JMHO

[Rai_77]

Originally Posted by CynthiaATL I agree with everything but the bolded. the reason being is that like Rockstar said that most ppl do not have a crematorium in the back yard. Where I work in FL many chose to bring their animals home to be buried. And it is legal to do so in many areas. And you have to remember these large yards are usually in rural areas. And if one has been breeding for 20+ years they may have many buried on their property. JMHO

That is the reason I placed the word in quotes. Hoarders are known for having dead and decaying bodies strewn about their homes and yard. There is a big difference, I'm sure you can see, between, like I said, "burying" a dog under your bed and actually burying it (properly) in your yard.

[CynthiaATL]

Originally Posted by Rai_77 That is the reason I placed the word in quotes. Hoarders are known for having dead and decaying bodies strewn about their homes and yard. There is a big difference, I'm sure you can see, between, like I said, "burying" a dog under your bed and actually burying it (properly) in your yard.

Sorry hard to hear the sarcasm when looking at a computer screen!

[Rai_77]

Originally Posted by CynthiaATL Sorry hard to hear the sarcasm when looking at a computer screen!

lol! No problem , I should utilize my smilies more!

[Searcy Jeff]

Not targeting anyone.

But just because you can't handle 1, 2 or more than a few dogs in your home, doesn't mean others can't handle more.

We lead different lifestyles. Some work at home and some don't. Some work hard and some don't even know what hard work is! Some have yard help and some don't even keep dogs in their yard!

Too many people are quick to pass judgement because of their ignorant nature.

As long as the dogs are properly cared for, who are you to say that there's too many dogs in a person's yard.

[monkeys23]

Originally Posted by Grizzly Well I'm assuming this thread was started due to my reply as to why anyone would have 150 dogs in their yard. One reply given was simply "they were dog lovers", my answer was "maybe they have OCD( once again sarcasm). Now my feelings, and it's only my opinion is this. If the owner of 150 dogs is a breeder, how many dogs is he/she cranking out in a years time? I've known several "respectable" breeders and they will generally have a few good studs and a few good bitches...not alot ( as in 150) but a few. Now far be it from me to say how many is too many...oh hell that would surely have someone saying I was trying to strip away their God given rights and freedoms. But a breeder with 150 dogs sounds excessive to me, almost like a puppy mill. Now on top of that, when the dogs just happen to be PIT BULLS...the most vicious, bloodthirsty, ferocious, existing only to kill and hated dog in the world ( according to the media), what kind of image does this "breeder" create for himself? And it IS the dogs wrongful image that is destroying it. I cannot and will not judge as to the level of care this many dogs receive, I'm sure they can be decently provided for. But again if this person is a so-called breeder how many pups are produced in a years time and why truthfully would someone need 100-150 dogs to breed pit bulls. That is placing a lot of dogs in the hands of people who I'm sure at times are going to be very irresponsible...maybe even fight their dogs...but then again all this is only my opinion.

I agree. I think it would be nearly impossible to maintain a high level of quality in the dogs if a breeder had 150 or more on the yard. And how will the breeder be able to make sure those dogs are properly accomplished in showing and the like and therefore justified to breed the dogs? Maybe that is how to differentiate between a puppy mill and a reputable breeder? ...Because not all papered dogs are accomplished and suitable for breeding.

I also think that its very comparable to Thoroughbred horse farms: many of these farms have a huge number of horses and pump foals out of those poor mares every single year just to make the breeder money (I'm not sure if its regulated, but I know a lot of people will breed their mares at 2 or 3, when a horse isn't fully grown and ready to use for riding until its 4-5). As a result the breed has a reputation for being inbred and goofy because of overbreeding... And I know of a QH producer in my hometown who probably has 100 or so head of mares that are out to pasture 100% of the time, even during foaling (which is not monitored), they have enough babies pull through that they can make a profit off of these "papered" (who cares if its papered if the foals parents haven't distinguished themselves? why pay that money when you can just get a better animal from a working breeder like my parents neighbors who use their stock every single day to work cows?) horses to keep on doing this. Hmmm doesn't that sound a lot like the overpopulation problem that byb'ers and disreputable breeders and the like are giving our breed of dog???

In fact its probably applicable to many breeds of dog that are commonly seen in pet stores and dumped in shelters by owners who got a puppy because it was "cute".

That said, I do think the above is different from hoarding because someone in a breeding situation usually has other motivations ($$$) for keeping that many animals. Hoarding is a mental problem with the person and they do not understand that there is a problem and therefore I do not think they should be allowed to have that many (if any?) animals simply because of the danger to the animals themselves. Anyway, others have better explained the hoarding situation in their posts.

[EDOGZ818]

RAI_77 & Searcy Jeff : I agree with your definitions. I would think with 150 dogs , one would have kennel hands. ( AKA : HELP )