Something that I see all the time on these bully boards is a dichotomy, some think it's perfectly okay to match dogs, keep those great bloodlines going and the "shit eaters" (lovely term, by the way ) are ruining everything, and then they complain that all the politicos, ACO's and humane enforcement agencies are out to get them, even though they don't fight their dogs.

So here's the big question, how can it be that you have your cake and eat it too? I see this quoted...

It seems as though they're shackled to the idea of wiping out all the old-school lines.

and this...

As far as breeding dogs for fighting. Many people believe that you should not breed unproven dogs.

and a page later I see...

The good owner or the bad owner it's all going to come to a big fucking hault real soon for all who own this shit eater!!!

Well, which way do you want it? Do you want those coveted "old school" lines, because the only way you're gettin' them it to match dogs to make sure they're game. Do you support those who breed for known fighting capabilities, because "well, dat dere is a REAL Pit Bull!"?
Or do you stop supporting these breeders in the attempt to minimize the collateral damage so your right to own one isn't jeopardized?
Discuss .

[bahamutt99]

You know, I wish I could give you a solid answer. I love those old-school dogs, but I abhor the sport that created them. I don't really want to know what those people are doing behind closed doors, and I hope they're on the up-and-up. But that doesn't mean I'd want to see their dogs wiped out in a second if they were caught doing something bad.

When it comes down to it, I want to keep the breed. And I have no use for matching. But I feel a compulsion to protest people losing their right to be innocent until proven guilty, even if they look guilty. I have to hope that at least some of these people will be found innocent, because I honestly believe that if they fall, we're going to fall as well. If a dogman with 30 dogs can be found guilty of matching for having healthy dogs and a treadmill, then what does that say for one of us who maybe has 5 healthy dogs, a treadmill, and a few breaking sticks?

[airwalk]

If a dogman with 30 dogs can be found guilty of matching for having healthy dogs and a treadmill, then what does that say for one of us who maybe has 5 healthy dogs, a treadmill, and a few breaking sticks?

Ah, but you see that is where I see the gap...convictions aren't made (at least on the average) by a treadmill and a few breaking sticks. Convictions are made on the totality of the evidence, the best of which are the dogs themselves, the money, the contracts, the contacts, the veterinary equipment and a lot of other information and evidence.

The ownership of a spring pole, a breaking stick and treadmill...in and of themselves doesn't make the average A/C blink. The ownership of a well conditioned dog doesn't make us blink. Add the rest of the stuff and we blink...we investigate...we follow the evidence....if the totallity of it is there, then we get warrants (which by the way require some level of verifiable reasonable pc) and we go in...we then follow the evidence....if it's there, we request prosecution....we then continue to investigate and follow the evidence...if it's there...a conviction is achieved.

[fearlessknight]

Originally Posted by airwalk Ah, but you see that is where I see the gap...convictions aren't made (at least on the average) by a treadmill and a few breaking sticks. Convictions are made on the totality of the evidence, the best of which are the dogs themselves, the money, the contracts, the contacts, the veterinary equipment and a lot of other information and evidence. The ownership of a spring pole, a breaking stick and treadmill...in and of themselves doesn't make the average A/C blink. The ownership of a well conditioned dog doesn't make us blink. Add the rest of the stuff and we blink...we investigate...we follow the evidence....if the totallity of it is there, then we get warrants (which by the way require some level of verifiable reasonable pc) and we go in...we then follow the evidence....if it's there, we request prosecution....we then continue to investigate and follow the evidence...if it's there...a conviction is achieved.

Pardon me...but what is all of this "US" and "WE"........you are AC???????

[buddysmom]

Really good question. I have often wondered this myself.

From my observation many people's feelings do tend to be mixed.

I do think many bully advocates -- and I mean those WITH a clue -- aren't helping the problems of overzealous law enforcement, BSL, and overall bad rep of themselves and their dogs, by being too unwilling to let go of the "old ways."

As a very interested, somewhat 'outside' observer it seems to me that a grand cultural shift is needed to save the APBT, and that must include defining and embracing new breeding practices that do not involve matching. It is time to stop looking the other way.

IMHO.

[DieselDawg]

They should change the name to "People Control" or "PC" because they are the offenders.

[buddysmom]

Originally Posted by fearlessknight Pardon me...but what is all of this "US" and "WE"........you are AC???????

Airwalk can correct me if I'm wrong but I believe s/he is in a rescue that sometimes works with AC? In my county the AC and shelter are one and the same. They mostly do rescue but also have the powers to investigate and prosecute cruelty/neglect cases.

Airwalk is indeed a manager of a shelter, a bully friendly one at that.

But back to the question, I have a hard time wrapping my head around the train of thought that in order to have a true bully, it must be gamebred, and in order to get gamebred, ya have to match dogs up to see who's coming out on top.

So isn't every time someone buys a great dog form a great yard actually supporting dogfighting indirectly?

[Wyldmoonwoman]

I am not the best person to weigh in on this discussion because
A) I have no interest in purchasing a pit bull and
B) I am not the most knowledgeable person on game bred dogs

I also have a hard time wrapping my head around the mentality that a true bully being game-bred must be rolled.

I think of dogs in terms of form and function, temperament, the physical and mental...to me if you really want a "game dog", you can assess how "game" a dog is without fighting by observing the way it will attack the spring pole (or some other similar test)

I think the sport is barbaric, I apreciate it for what it is and where my dog comes from, but see no reason for it to continue

Why are there people who insist on having a dog that is ‘proven old school’? Do those people really think that dog fighting will again be legal? While anything is certainly possible, the law is unlikely to change.

I know people who could never think of, or have a dog as a pet. Their belief is that animals have a working purpose. If the animal is not contributing, simply is a pet, it is useless and/or should be done away with. Maybe some Pit Bull ‘enthusiasts’ and breeders feel the same way about the APBT. If it is not making money or chewing up and/or killing other dogs, what good is it?

I can only guess that's what some might be thinking or believing.

Those who wish to ensure the future of a breed with the attributes, disposition and temperament of a Pit Bull need to figure a way of testing said breed, if need be, without incorporating the ‘sport’ of matching dogs.

It is possible to have a pet with breed characteristics while said pet does not perform in the manner for which it was bred. How many Beagles are there, kept as pets, that have never hunted? Yet, they have those characteristics in their genetics. As long as Beagles are bred to Beagles, that characteristic will remain in their genes no matter how many generations they were pets. Why are there those who see the APBT differently?

Dog fighting is illegal. So, don’t do it, period. Or, be prepared to pay lawful consequences for those activities. If it ever is legal again, have at it. After all, then it will be legal.

[airwalk]

Originally Posted by fearlessknight Pardon me...but what is all of this "US" and "WE"........you are AC???????

Would it be a problem if I were?

[buddysmom]

Originally Posted by airwalk Would it be a problem if I were?

That IS a good question and I look forward to the answer because I respect the hell out of most A/C officers. If I had my life to do over in fact, it's a career path I would seriously consider.

[fearlessknight]

Originally Posted by airwalk Would it be a problem if I were?

Nope.....just wondering if thats what you meant by it.....thanks for clearing it up!

[fearlessknight]

Originally Posted by buddysmom That IS a good question and I look forward to the answer because I respect the hell out of most A/C officers. If I had my life to do over in fact, it's a career path I would seriously consider.

Everyone acts like there is...or was....going to be some off-centered hatred answer...sorry to bust bubbles!

I do not have a problem with Animal Control! They have been to our house many times and praised not only our dogs, but our yard as well..... and the cleanliness of everything........................................ ..
If you fear AC....then you must be doing something wrong.....right?

I simply wanted to know...because I was not aware....not that it m atters I guess......but WTF!

[buddysmom]

Thanks for explaining, LOL! I think it was the number of question marks you used, that threw me for a loop.

P.S. - I know there are ones that harass and such.

And I don't buy into the notion of giving up all our rights to privacy in this country because "if you're not doing anything wrong, why should you care?" That is scary and VERY un-American!

[fearlessknight]

Originally Posted by buddysmom Thanks for explaining, LOL! I think it was the number of question marks you used, that threw me for a loop. P.S. - I know there are ones that harass and such. And I don't buy into the notion of giving up all our rights to privacy in this country because "if you're not doing anything wrong, why should you care?" That is scary and VERY un-American!

I dont either.......I was just simply stating......if you are not doing anything wrong, then you have nothing to fear......

All of the ? marks were so it would be seen.........looks like it was seen!

[buddysmom]

Originally Posted by fearlessknight I dont either.......I was just simply stating......if you are not doing anything wrong, then you have nothing to fear...... All of the ? marks were so it would be seen.........looks like it was seen!

Yeah, no worries, I don't peg you for one who would toss aside our great Constitution.

[fearlessknight]

Originally Posted by buddysmom Yeah, no worries, I don't peg you for one who would toss aside our great Constitution.

Ha.....you being sarcastic?

[buddysmom]

Originally Posted by fearlessknight Ha.....you being sarcastic?

Well ... I AM a Democrat for Obama who is kissing up to Texans at the moment

But seriously no, I am not being one bit sarcastic ... you give me the impression of a true and knowledgeable patriot.

[fearlessknight]

Originally Posted by buddysmom Well ... I AM a Democrat for Obama who is kissing up to Texans at the moment But seriously no, I am not being one bit sarcastic ... you give me the impression of a true and knowledgeable patriot.

Coolness!