[johnnyoops]

Hey everyone, I’m hoping to get some feedback on an issue I’m having with my two dogs. Anyone with multidog home experience please respond to this thread with your experiences and or advice.

A little background info on both dogs. Jazz is my 14 month old rescued dog. Her and her littermates were found as strays very young, at about 4 weeks old. I think this might be the root cause of many of her issues but not all of them. I adopted her at 13 weeks old and been training her since. She’s a big girl at about 80 lbs. Jazz has been put through basic obedience training.

Chopper is my purebred APBT and still a little puppy at 18 weeks old. He’s currently about 35-40 lbs (I know, he’s gonna be HUGE). I’ve worked hard on training Chopper using the techniques from Jazz’s training and other material I’ve read. I got Chopper because I thought the two would love each others companionship which has been true most of the time.

I don’t crate either at night, they both snuggle up to each other in their bed right next to my bed (these are the times when I’m certain they love each other) I do however crate them both separately when I’m away from the house because I couldn’t imagine coming home to an injured or dead dog or even a destroyed house!

Now, here are the issues I’m having with them.

• Jazz is extremely food aggressive with other dogs, NEVER humans. I could put my head in her bowl while she’s eating and she won’t care. She’s been this way since a very young puppy. Size of dog doesn’t matter either. When she was a puppy at about 30 lbs, she would show teeth and growl at a dog that was 90 lbs and wouldn’t let him near the food bowl. This is still going on but now on a daily basis with Chopper. Chopper has learned to stay away from her while she’s eating so that’s a good thing. I’m just wondering if this is something she’ll ever get over or if I should consider feeding them both in their crates? I just think when Chopper reaches maturity he won’t be so good about staying away from Jazz during feeding.
• Jazz is very aggressive with her toys sometimes. Just last night, she bit Chopper very hard on his mouth causing minor bleeding from a long scrape/cut on his neck/jaw area. Jazz was playing with her rope on the couch (I allow them on the couches with an invitation from me) and Chopper wanted up and once I gave him the okay she bit him when he leaped up there. I think she thought he was coming for the rope but he was just trying to get cozy with the rest of the family. I only let them play with toys under my supervision knowing how Jazz gets.
• Chopper is very loud while rough playing and I can’t tell if he’s being DA or just playing. He growls like he’s possessed by something but I think he’s just trying to hold his own and show Jazz he won’t submit to easily. Again, is this a dominance issue and trying to figure out the heirarchy.
• Jazz is a leash puller, especially when she see’s another dog. I walk her separately from Chopper every day and I’ve seen some progress just not as much as I’d like. I’ve even been working especially hard on “Focus” with a treat to get her eye contact as a diversion from the other dogs we see while walking. Again, some progress with this but she just gets so excited in certain situations.
• When I have company over, Jazz is extremely excited upon their initial entry into our home. After about 3-5 minutes she’s calm again and not as concerned with my guests. It’s the initial entry that’s tough on my guests and I. She wants to be right in your lap/face. I’ve tried leashing her when my guest enter so I have more control and stop her from jumping. It works but she still trys to jump everytime. I let them both lick my face to show affection and I think this is how they feel they should greet everyone. Should I stop letting her lick my face? This is the most disturbing behavior I've experienced with Jazz! It's embarrasing at times because she's so overly hyper around new people.

What are everyone’s thoughts on the underlying causes of some of this behavior? Any suggestions? They both are the most loving dogs, I just want them to have better manners! I appreciate any feedback I get.

[Michele]

As far as feeding them, I would feed them in their crates.

As far as your other issues, rather than give you the wrong information, I'm going to wait for someone withe more knowledge to answer this.

[jeoestreich]

For the food aggresion, I would suggest feeding each one in their crates with the door close. This will solve any problems with the other dog trying to get the other dogs food and so forth. Also this way you know that how much they are eating or if they are eating.

[Michele]

This link miight also help you:

http://www.pitbull-chat.com/showthread.php?t=3110

[maryellen]

damit i had a whole thing typed and its gone..

the older pup is maturing, and is not tolerating the 18 week old anymore as the young one no longer has a puppy license to get away with crap ...

as far as food goes, feed each one in their crates, and remove the food bowls once done and put in sink. this way the older one wont go after the young one if he wanders near the food bowl.. make sure there are no crumbs left onthe floor.

as far as playing, most pit bull pups play really rough. it might look bad but it probably isnt. if the pup is play bowing (sticking his ass in the air and his front legs onthe ground) then he is playing. he is probably hanging off the older ones neck/cheek right? that is probably play..

i would also suggest doingNILIF on both. (www.k9deb.com ) nothing in life is free. basically the dogs have to work to get something, like sit to eat, sit to greet, etc..

give each dog individual play/training time with you so that they bond to you not to each other.

with dog aggression, some dogs mature early some late. some dogs are "cold" meaning they wont fight back if pushed,but will try to get away.

if your female is becoming dog aggressive this is normal for the breed, you will just have to do a crate/rotate for the dogs entire lives if they or one of them decide they dont like the other one anymore.

www.pbrc.net and www.badrap.org have great articles on multi dog homes.

i have 3 dogs, i can leave certain toys out, but not the buster cube.. that toy causes fights, so it stays in the closet unless only one dog can play with it while the other 2 are put away. some dogs can be fine with toys/bones around, some cant..

take all toys/bones off the floor and put them away where the dogs cant reach them. only let one dog play with toys while the other is put away to prevent a fight...

[johnnyoops]

Originally Posted by maryellen damit i had a whole thing typed and its gone.. the older pup is maturing, and is not tolerating the 18 week old anymore as the young one no longer has a puppy license to get away with crap ... as far as food goes, feed each one in their crates, and remove the food bowls once done and put in sink. this way the older one wont go after the young one if he wanders near the food bowl.. make sure there are no crumbs left onthe floor. as far as playing, most pit bull pups play really rough. it might look bad but it probably isnt. if the pup is play bowing (sticking his ass in the air and his front legs onthe ground) then he is playing. he is probably hanging off the older ones neck/cheek right? that is probably play.. i would also suggest doingNILIF on both. (www.k9deb.com ) nothing in life is free. basically the dogs have to work to get something, like sit to eat, sit to greet, etc.. give each dog individual play/training time with you so that they bond to you not to each other. with dog aggression, some dogs mature early some late. some dogs are "cold" meaning they wont fight back if pushed,but will try to get away. if your female is becoming dog aggressive this is normal for the breed, you will just have to do a crate/rotate for the dogs entire lives if they or one of them decide they dont like the other one anymore. www.pbrc.net and www.badrap.org have great articles on multi dog homes. i have 3 dogs, i can leave certain toys out, but not the buster cube.. that toy causes fights, so it stays in the closet unless only one dog can play with it while the other 2 are put away. some dogs can be fine with toys/bones around, some cant.. take all toys/bones off the floor and put them away where the dogs cant reach them. only let one dog play with toys while the other is put away to prevent a fight...

Thanks for the information. I thought their playing was pretty normal and I'm very good about finding their triggers and removing them before and issue arrises. I really hope I don't have to resort to crate and rotate but I'll have no choice if they decide to not get along at one point upon maturity. I think with enough practice and work they'll be alright. To be honest, I've tried just about everything with Jazz and jumping problem she has. Nothing seems to work. She sits knowing she won't get any attention until she does so, then once she's sitting and you reward her with some attention, she jumps at your face trying to steal a kiss. She must be thinking when she sits, then gets petted, that is her release command??? Again, I appreciate all the feedback everyone has given me. I was really concerned about Chopper and how loud he was while playing and biting on each others cheeks but sounds like it's normal. I'll continue to monitor their playing habits.

[Maddie's Mom]

Good post ME!

[maryellen]

thanks! for the sitting part, teach her the stay or wait command... incorporate that into her sits, and keep her on leash when guests arrive... no more kissing or pets from you if she sits... as she might be thinking she is getting the reward jumping up like you said..

have everyone ignore her, no speak no eye contact no touch when they come in. have her either on leash attached to you, or in her crate, or on a tie out in the house.. no one can approach her unless she is calm and quiet.. i tell people who come to my house to ignore my dogs when they walk in , so that the dogs dont get reinforced when guests come over.. if the dogs misbehave the dogs get put away...

you can also run her before guests arrive so that she is tired that will help too

[tcox]

johnnyoops wrote:

Jazz is a leash puller, especially when she see’s another dog. I walk her separately from Chopper every day and I’ve seen some progress just not as much as I’d like. I’ve even been working especially hard on “Focus” with a treat to get her eye contact as a diversion from the other dogs we see while walking. Again, some progress with this but she just gets so excited in certain situations.

Whether a dog is DA or not, leash pulling is a dominance issue directed at you. If you have a submissive dog that respects you as pack leader, they will not pull!

You seem to be headed in the right direction with this by trying to change focus.
I am not a fan of food treats here; I find "squeaky" toys work even better than treats. Continue the hard work!

One of the things I've done in the past with DA dogs who have this tendency, is try to anticipate when this problem occurs.
For instance; if on walks there are specific areas where other dogs are encountered, you can anticipate the problem and decrease the possiblity of an escalation by:

Bringing your dog back to the heel, then sit position. Once you have her "ATTENTIVE" and "SUBMISSIVE", let her play a few seconds with the toy. Then place her back in a sit, heel position and begin to walk passed the problem area in a heel using a "SQUEAK" of the toy to help her keep her focus on YOU! After you pass, play a little more.

This should help you improve results. The reason I suggest a squeaky toy is that it helps YOU get in a more relaxed mental state; where your not projecting the wrong energy. I also find it more effective than food and more healthy.

When I have company over, Jazz is extremely excited upon their initial entry into our home. After about 3-5 minutes she’s calm again and not as concerned with my guests. It’s the initial entry that’s tough on my guests and I. She wants to be right in your lap/face. I’ve tried leashing her when my guest enter so I have more control and stop her from jumping. It works but she still trys to jump everytime. I let them both lick my face to show affection and I think this is how they feel they should greet everyone. Should I stop letting her lick my face? This is the most disturbing behavior I've experienced with Jazz! It's embarrasing at times because she's so overly hyper around new people.

This is more of a SUBMISSIVE issue that dominance. I would suggest having your guest completely iqnore your dogs when they come over. (No Touch; No Talk; No Eye Contact)
This will help the dog change mindset.

It is YOUR Responsibility to communicate to your guests; how to enter your home and interact with your dogs. It is also your responsibility to "CORRECT" your dogs BAD behavior IMMEDIATELY.

You also mentioned "Licking" your face.
I would not allow UN-controlled or excitible licking. However, licking each others muzzle and face area is a common greeting in dogdom. Licking/Grooming can also be a way submissive dogs endear themselves to more dominant individuals. The more submissive dogs also lick and groom each other as a way of increasing the cohesiveness of the pack.

Remember the power of the pack. ALL dogs more than anything, want to participate in pack behavior. This means, whatever you are doing dogs usually want to take part. (ie; hiking, biking, entertaining friends, whatever!)
If you remain CONSISTANT in NOT showing any affection or attention while she jumps on YOU by turning you back and walking away a few steps, she should get the message jumping does not work. I make my dogs sit is a calm/submissive manner before attention is given. After that, playing with me or calmly greeting a guest is OK.

I hope this helps.
Tim

PS; You should take "Resource" guarding seriously. It's your responsibility to protect BOTH DOGS.
Jazz should not be allowed to BITE your other dog for ANY reason!
Your other dog likewise, needs to be taught good manners when it comes to food or toys with which JAZZ is pre-occupied.
You taking the initiative here WILL also help Jazz with potentail DA issues while in public. When JAZZ understands you will protect HER SPACE, she is more likely to remain calm under stressfull situations.

[johnnyoops]

Thanks Tcox! I will practice the squeaky toy thing while on walks. You have given me lots of good advice. I agree that Jazz should never bite my other dog and I always try to watch out for things that could lead to that but in that instance I slipped. I definitely let Jazz know that's not acceptable and put her away for about 10 minutes after that.

I've noticed that whatever toy Jazz is playing with Chopper wants. Whatever toy Chopper is playing with Jazz wants. I could have 50 different toys on the floor and they'd only be concerned with one toy. Any ideas here or suggestions here that would give me some insight on how to allow them to play with separate toys at the same time? Sounds silly, I know! Thanks again for all the great feedback from everyone.

[littledozer24]

Thanks for the squeak toy idea. When Lugz and I walk/jog, I can get him to ignore almost all the other dogs but there are a couple that he doesn't want to ignore. Sometimes, I have used food treats but he loves his squeaky toys; so I am going to have to try this one.

[TheVictor22]

Originally Posted by johnnyoops I've noticed that whatever toy Jazz is playing with Chopper wants. Whatever toy Chopper is playing with Jazz wants. I could have 50 different toys on the floor and they'd only be concerned with one toy. Any ideas here or suggestions here that would give me some insight on how to allow them to play with separate toys at the same time? Sounds silly, I know! Thanks again for all the great feedback from everyone.

Wow, I have the same problem. I have had my dogs have been living together sence late dec. and they had there first fight this morning. It was this exact situation.

I would also like to learn how they can learn to play at the same time. I don't want to have to separate my dogs.

[waltz4aidan]

Originally Posted by johnnyoops Thanks Tcox! I will practice the squeaky toy thing while on walks. You have given me lots of good advice. I agree that Jazz should never bite my other dog and I always try to watch out for things that could lead to that but in that instance I slipped. I definitely let Jazz know that's not acceptable and put her away for about 10 minutes after that. I've noticed that whatever toy Jazz is playing with Chopper wants. Whatever toy Chopper is playing with Jazz wants. I could have 50 different toys on the floor and they'd only be concerned with one toy. Any ideas here or suggestions here that would give me some insight on how to allow them to play with separate toys at the same time? Sounds silly, I know! Thanks again for all the great feedback from everyone.

same thing with my niobie and dozer.. dozer will usually instigate with taking niobie's toy from her. once he has it and she finds another he does it again. sometimes she will go back and try to take it from him too..then the cycle just starts over.. i have tons of toys for them. from bones, kong toys, those tires with ropes in them, squeaky toys, i will even get bones and stuff them with peanut butter. they pick out toys they want at petsmart but they still want each other's toys once they're home..

[johnnyoops]

It sounds like a common problem in multidog homes. It must be a dominance thing. "Look, I have the toy you want, go ahead try to get it."
It drives me crazy because it gets loud when they're competing for the toy. Barking to no end. YIKES!