Re: Rowdy (male/intact), one year old last Thanksgiving. I have had him since August of last year.

I just found out this week that Rowdy does not like a collar or harness either put on him or taken off him.

When he sees the device coming, he tries to hide.

During the activity of directly interacting with him and the device, he growls. His heart rate goes up and he shakes slightly.

While he growls, I calmly tell him "No" or "calm down" and praise him when he stops growling.

Immediately after the interactive activity with the device, he is fine. I praise him again.

I have tried praise along with a treat before and after the activity.

I don't know if he would bite or snap at me. I feel though, that he is just "this far" from doing it though.

I have been on the ground and breaking up a dog fight that Rowdy was in (long story) and while he growled and snarled, it was not directed at me and he did not bite or snap at me as I clutched him closely.

However, I am very concerned with his growling behavior will I am trying to place or remove a collar or harness on him. I have never before felt that he was directing a growl towards me. I was surprised by this development.

Please discuss.

[Madeleinemom]

I am not going to pretend to be an expert, but can only surmise that Rowdy has a strong - and negative - association with both a collar or harness.

We had a somewhat similar experience with Esperanza (our mostly Rottn one), who came to us as a stray. The mere sight of collar and leash sent her running. It took vet prescribed tranquilizers to get both on.

Back to your situation - is this a recent development, considering that you have had him since August of last year?

Yes, the growling is recent. He has never liked a collar but had not growled about it before. I introduced him to a new heavy duty 2" leather collar and his first harness just this week. The previous collars I've used were 1" nylon and either snapped or buckled easily and quickly.

[Madeleinemom]

Have you tried the old collar again to see how that may change/reverse the behavior?

He destroyed the "D" ring on one of the old collars, that is why I need a heavy duty collar. But, yes, I did put another old collar on him and while he did not growl, he did not like the activity. I also waited until he was distracted by and eating food, as the collar was quickly and easily placed on him.

[Salgonza]

Im not an expert either, but shouldn't you try at this point try and make it a good experience for him? For example bring the collar out but not put it on him. just let him sniff if he wants to. take it slow. give him treats get him comfortable after time he should technically be okay with it. I could be wrong just my .02

[tat2stuff]

funny(not ha ha funny) you should post this, Whiskey is fine with collars and was good with putting on the harness(same one you have) up until a few days ago, now when he sees me coming with the harness, he backs away, and tries to hide like Rowdy. It is a pain getting him to wear it now. I was always gentle putting it over his head(he had an ear infection when I first started using it) so it wasn't that he experienced any pain from it, and he always associated it with a walk, which he loves to do. It's just weird how he developed a dislike for it over night.

As far as Rowdy goes, I would get a bunch of treats, put the collar or harness in front of him, and slowly advance to putting it on as he becomes more at ease with it. It could be he had bad experiences with a thick collar or harness in his past.

Also are you approaching him from the front and over him to put it on? Try kneeling down at his side or from behind him, he may think your challenging him.

[Michele]

Also are you approaching him from the front and over him to put it on? Try kneeling down at his side or from behind him, he may think your challenging him

I agree. Or kneel down in front of him. Or it could be that the leather needs to wear a bit? Is the leather hard?

[maryellen]

the harnesses should be buckled on not put over their heads, try unbuckling them and putting them on that way.

LOTS of good treats that they only get when the harness goes on should be used.. start out slow, and gradually.


and, some dogs just dont like harnesses...

[BrindlePibbleMom]

Why is your Pit Bull intact?

[screamin'eagle]

Originally Posted by BrindlePibbleMom Why is your Pit Bull intact?

I'd assume it's because the dog was born that way...

[CoolHandJean]

Originally Posted by screamin'eagle I'd assume it's because the dog was born that way...

LOL. Good answer.

Are there any signs of dominance presenting now that's he's hitting maturity? Does he flinch easily if you swing a hand at him quickly? Was he completely okay with a collar and harness up to that point?
And one other thing you can do as a quick neuro test, take a penlight and shine it in his eye until the pupil is a pinpoint, click the light off and count how long it takes to go back to the same size as the other one. Then do the other eye, see if it's the same time count.

[PNWPBR]

Originally Posted by screamin'eagle I'd assume it's because the dog was born that way...

LOL SE


I assume she means it as in "Why is the dog intact?" in the way we tell someone with a dog exhibiting behavior issues that one of the first things they should do (or have done) is alter the animal.

Originally Posted by BrindlePibbleMom Why is your Pit Bull intact?

Thanks SE ! LOL

Jessica, I'm not sure if your question is "fair" or if it has a sermon or agenda. But, it does raise a red flag.

Sorry, but I think it is the sort of question that will bring up strong opinions, and it doesn't bode well for discussion if people get misunderstood or if people are hostile towards other's opinions. Having said that, I will attempt to answer your question. But, it will not be a short smart ass answer, so please bear with me. I will have my say here once. I will not get into arguing points. If you would like to avoid the entire philosophical BS I’ve posted, and just get a straight answer, I’ve bolded that text below.

I have two dogs Jessica. They are only one month apart in age. Sugar is a Humane Society Rescue that I adopted at 12 weeks of age. I had her spayed when 7 months old and the timing of the surgery was my choice. Rowdy is a found pet. He found me. The circumstances were well reported in the introduction I posted almost a month ago and probably bear no relevance to this discussion.

I will admit that I anthropomorphize Rowdy. There I said it. I admit it. Really, I've never heard of anyone being strongly regretful for spaying or neutering. But, I do suspect that male dog owners have a clench-the-knees reaction to neutering their dogs, as opposed to spaying their bitches, and almost all female canine owners I've known had no problem doing either. For what it's worth.

I feel ancillary questions to the one you asked, Jessica, that are appropriate to this discussion are, "How responsible are you?""Are you prepared to train your dog when he starts marking in the house?"

"Are you prepared if a dog in the neighborhood comes into heat, your dog will try anything to get to that female in heat, he will dig under fences, climb fences, jump fences, run away, whine, howl, bark, not eat, he will basically go insane while a female is in heat? He may run 5 miles away to get to a female! How do you think it will feel for your dog when he is going crazy? If he does get out successfully how will you feel if he gets hit by a car (dies) or isn't found? You will have to contain your dog beyond all means or else the dog will be having puppies!"

"Also, dogs breed through fences and crates, and kennels."

"How will you deal with it?"

Those are the questions I must really answer. My honest opinion is this: If I am not willing, able and responsible to care for the whole non-human being, then I should get a plushy toy to cuddle up with; a thing that neither needs suffer neglect nor unnecessary surgery to compensate for my training and handling inadequacies.

It seems that some people do not want a dog ... rather; some people want something that looks like a dog.

I am NOT irresponsible for keeping my companion intact. To the contrary I am MORE responsible. To care for an intact animal and prevent them from mating requires a good deal more responsibility that most people possess. This is why neutering is so popular; people are lazy and would rather surgically carve their canine into a servile plaything than deal with a whole being. So please don’t look down your nose on those of us who choose not to S/N by calling us irresponsible! Not that YOU would Jessica, I'm just saying.

While on the subject of S/N, what about de-clawing, de-barking, circumcision, ear cropping and tail docking? For me, there comes a point where, if I don't want to deal with a pet's nature, I shouldn't have a pet.

The choice of when to neuter Rowdy, if I do, has much to do with my preference of developmental characteristics and I personally feel it is better to neuter late. As it is, Rowdy has just in the last couple of months, begun to display particularly male behavior (lifting leg when peeing, scenting behavior, sexual behavior) so I am glad that he is still intact and will develop those characteristics naturally.

If it turns out that I prove to be an irresponsible owner, or for whatever reason I feel there is no other choice, I will definitely have Rowdy neutered or have a vasectomy done as appropriate to the circumstances. I would rather do that than give him up or put him down. I guess I am selfish like that.

I hope I have answered your question Jessica. No offense intended. I have just tried to be honest about how I feel.

Male Specific Issues

- Loss of testosterone; the male sex and growth hormone
- Narrowing of the chest resulting in respiratory disorders
- Failure to extrude the penis
- Loss of testosterone is directly correlated to: heart disease and myocardial infarction, strokes and cardiovascular disease, senile dementia, osteoporosis and hip fracture
- Increases risk of cardiac hemangiosarcoma (by a factor of 1.6)
- Increased risk of progressive geriatric cognitive impairment
- Quadruples risk of prostate cancer (prostatic adenocarcinoma)

Common Issues

- Anesthesia shock and surgical complications
- Post operative pain and infection
- Personality changes
- Increased risk of obesity (triple risk in males, double in females)
- Tripled risk of hypothyroidism
- Increased risk of osteosarcoma (bone cancer) in medium/large breeds when neutered before 1 year of age.
- Cerebellar cortical abiotrophy (a neurological problem)
- Doubled risk of urinary tract cancer
- Increased risk of orthopedic disorders and hip dypslasia
- Increased risk of adverse reactions to vaccinations

Originally Posted by huskylove Are there any signs of dominance presenting now that's he's hitting maturity? Does he flinch easily if you swing a hand at him quickly? Was he completely okay with a collar and harness up to that point? And one other thing you can do as a quick neuro test, take a penlight and shine it in his eye until the pupil is a pinpoint, click the light off and count how long it takes to go back to the same size as the other one. Then do the other eye, see if it's the same time count.

Yes, there are signs of selective D/A.

I've never swung anything at Rowdy and not sure I want to do that (?).

He was ok with off the shelf one inch quick buckle nylon collars. He had never had a harness on before. The collars I was trying to put on when he growled, are super heavy duty 1.5 and 2 inch leather collars. The leather in new and pristine condition is very stiff. It required some heavy handedness on my part and more constriction on Rowdy's neck than he was previously used to while applying and removing collars.

I will have to try the neuro test. Please explain that part a little more. If the eyes are different, what concerns are possible as applies to this situation?

Thanks HL !

[screamin'eagle]

Originally Posted by huskylove And one other thing you can do as a quick neuro test, take a penlight and shine it in his eye until the pupil is a pinpoint, click the light off and count how long it takes to go back to the same size as the other one. Then do the other eye, see if it's the same time count.

Huskylove will you expand on this point? I am just curious what a delay, or variance between pupillary response in either eye indicates. I just want to be clear on this line of reasoning because I currently have no clue about this aspect lol...

[paballoonlady]

once you get the collar on, can't you just leave it on.? I always had a collar on my dogs.

Originally Posted by paballoonlady once you get the collar on, can't you just leave it on.? I always had a collar on my dogs.

I have several collars for Rowdy and I have not decided which, if any, he will wear solely for the rest of his life if that is what you mean.

I've learned that Rowdy responds well to positive training if done in small steps and lavishly praised and rewarded. I casually handle the collars and harness frequently and while near him and do not actually place them on him. The collars and harness are in a place where he sees them most of the time and must pass right by them many times a day. I praise and give him a cookie BEFORE I try and place the leather on him and lavishly praise and reward him afterward. That seems to be working pretty good so far.

The light test can indicate a few different issues, one being a neurological issues such as earlier head trauma, a neurotransmitter deficiency (i.e. brain chemistry is off) or it can be a quickie test for vision problems. If one pupil dilates faster than the other it can be indicative of neuro, something is short circuiting the response time to the eye.

And I asked you to swing at him quickly to see what his reaction will be (but be careful doing such a test, as I'm sure you like all your limbs right where they are ) so you can see if it's a vision issue or a reactivity problem, since you don't know his background, he may be handshy from being smacked around. A dog that has been struck will usually drop the head down, a dog with peripheral vision problems will rear the head up.

Regardless, the one poster had it right, put a collar on him and leave it on, let him get used to the idea of wearing it all the time, later on when he's more comfortable because it's second nature to wear one, then you can be more fashion savvy and switch them out.