[crankin@roadrunner.com]

Hi, I am new to this forum. I am having a major behavior problem with my 3 year old male pit. He is intact and the youngest dog in the house. He is also the largest 85#. We are experienced with pits and this is the first one to have a behavior issue. He has started attacking the other 2 dogs in our house. This started about 8 mos. ago. He just gets a look in his eye, then he goes after one of them, usually my other male. Tonite he went after my female for trying to get up on the couch. Sometimes, he goes many weeks without an incident...... I don't know what to do, my vet doesn't really have any suggestions except get him fixed which I am going to do. Any other suggestions??? Help..... My husband is extremely upset and ready to put him down.
Thanx,
Dana

[Michele]

Your dog is DA, which is normal. Dog agression is a genetic trait with this breed. You cannot train it out but you can manage it. You need to crate and rotate and never leave your dogs unsupervised.

You also might want to do NILIF:

http://www.pitbull-chat.com/showthread.php?t=1571

[crankin@roadrunner.com]

Will having him fixed help at all?? I have never crated him.... All 3 have free reign in the house. They are not destructive so, I don't crate.

[Michele]

It's good to have him fixed but it won't get rid of the dog's DA. At this point, you have to crate and rotate to keep them all safe And never leave them unsupervised and uncrated. They can no longer have free reign of the house.

DA is a genetic trait that comes with owning this breed. Not all APBTs are DA, but some are. You can manage it.

here's another link on dog agression:

http://www.pitbull-chat.com/showthread.php?t=3111

[Patch O' Pits]

Hi Dana and welcome to the forum. Sounds like the male is starting to mature and wants to be Alpha as well as possible having DA.

What training have you done with these dogs?

It makes no sense to me that you'd rather put the dog down than take the option of having him neutered? It may or may not help with the DA but will lesson tension somewhat between the dogs.

Are the other two also intact?

As already said DA can be part of the breed. All three should never have full reign of the house while there isn't someone there to supervise! That is an accident waiting to happen.

Also wanted to add though this is a bit off topic... that 85lbs is way above the standard for an APBT are you sure he is a purebred? The average APBT is between 30-60lbs give or take a couple

[crankin@roadrunner.com]

We have done obedience with all 3 of them. My oldest neutered male is a nine year old pit/lab rescue about 65#, my female is a pit mix rescue, six years old, spayed, around 62#. Rusty is a full blooded APBT. I love him dearly, he is my baby, putting him down is NOT an option for me, I will try everything else first. I also have a 12 year old son. Nothing seems to happen when we're not home......it happens when we're home. I do understand that it can happen anytime though. It's very scarey. It's like he snaps, gets over it and is fine. Should I just put them in separate rooms when we leave?? My son usually gets home from school first and lets them out together. He is with them 1/2 hour before my husband gets home.

[Michele]

From this point on, you need to crate and rotate. Also, your 12 year old son is not going to be able to handle them if a fight breaks out amongst the dogs. Please have your son wait for your husband to get home. Read those 2 links I provided in this thread.

[Patch O' Pits]

We have done obedience with all 3 of them. My oldest neutered male is a nine year old pit/lab rescue about 65#, my female is a pit mix rescue, six years old, spayed, around 62#.

Maybe than now is the time to start NILIF training. Also none of them can be up on the couch if that is one of the triggers for a fight and you need to learn the other triggers and the body language and postures.

Rusty is a full blooded APBT. I love him dearly, he is my baby, putting him down is NOT an option for me, I will try everything else first.

Well that is good to hear since it didn't sound like that when you said neutering was out of the question in your other post. IMO Neutering is something that needs to be done unless this is a show or working dog there is no reason for the extra hormones whichmay add to the issue.

I also have a 12 year old son. Nothing seems to happen when we're not home......it happens when we're home. I do understand that it can happen anytime though. It's very scarey. It's like he snaps, gets over it and is fine. Should I just put them in separate rooms when we leave?? My son usually gets home from school first and lets them out together. He is with them 1/2 hour before my husband gets home.

Think about how scary it is for you to see and then...can you imagine what would happen if he was home alone and a fight started? This is something you really need to be more cautious about if you already are having an issue with the dogs. I would not let him handle all three together at all. One at a time but definitely not all three or even two.

Either crate and rotate or have them secured in separate rooms is the best advice. You may also want to get some help from a behaviorist to see if it is true DA or fight for the Alpha position. Like I said at 3 your male is maturing and things change at maturity with many dogs so you have to adjust what is going on in your home and how the dogs are treated and handled as tough as that may be.

I wish there was an easy answer.

[maryellen]

please listen to what everyone is saying and do not allow your son to take the dogs out by himself, he can take one out for potty , then put the dog back , then take the other out, etc... god forbid a fight breaks out with all 3 or even 2 with your son there, he wont know what to do and that is too traumatizing for him to see....

[airwalk]

Lots of excellent advise here. I really agree with consulting with a trainer/behaviorist to determine if it truly is DA or a move for alpha, but until then, I would not permit all three to be together and never unsupervised - if they aren't destructive, then perhaps they could each have their own room with very sturdy close tightly doors.

That way if your son takes one out, in the excitement there's no risk of a door popping open unexpectedly.

[crankin@roadrunner.com]

Please don't misunderstand, I stated previously my vet didn't have any suggestions except neutering him which, I said I am going to do. My husband is very upset and made the suggestion of putting him down if we can't find a solution. I love my dogs and would not put any of them down, that is a last resort. I will put them in separate rooms and speak to my son regarding the "new" rules with the dogs. I would have never thought it would come to this in my house.

[Galadriel]

Dog aggression is not a valid reason to have him put down. If he were human aggressive, that would be a different story, but the two are not related. You haven't voiced it as a concern, but just in case you're worried about it, being dog aggressive does NOT mean he will turn human aggressive. Do a forum search for "dog aggression" here on the forums and read through some previous threads. You'll find some really great answers and understanding.

Dog aggression is part of the breed. That doesn't mean it happens to 100% of dogs, but it does happen to the vast majority. It shouldn't be looked at as a flaw, but rather a breed trait. Guardian breeds guard, herders herd, hounds hunt, APBT's are dog aggressive.

It can absolutely be managed, it's just going to take some time, patience, and a shift in your routine. You'll be amazed at how fast the dogs pick it up =)

Best of luck to you guys! Hang in there!

[fearlessknight]

Originally Posted by crankin@roadrunner.com Will having him fixed help at all?? I have never crated him.... All 3 have free reign in the house. They are not destructive so, I don't crate.

Well first welcome to the board....and your husband or you must not have too much experience with this breed, if either of you do not know that this breed is DA by nature and it will not go away......

You need to crate before you have dead or extremely torn up dogs......they should not be running freely in the house....especially not together....

And your husband needs to realize that this behaviour is very natural to this breed, and "putting him down" is a completely rotten and selfish thing to do. He didnt ask to be with owners that do not want to deal with this trait...he didnt ask to be with owners who want their dogs to have doggie friends, and let them run freely together to play all day.......


And while he should be neutured anyways......because he should never be bred....it will not help (most likely) but good for you for gettnig it done!

Dont mean tto sound harsh...but this issue comes up more often than not.....

OK All the suggestions you are getting are good and I do agree. There is a larger issue at hand here though. Please don't take this as any type of a slam, but you and your husband need some serious education of the breed. Not only are his statements proof he really has no knowledge of the breed, your statements of how you let your dogs together during the day tell me that there is little knowledge in the household of the breed at all. These are 2 serious issues. Both boil down to understanding what dog aggression is, why these dogs have it, and how you can manage it and still maintain a healthy happy environment for all. The 12 year old DEFINITELY needs to be included in ALL the discussion and education. If you would like help, let us know and we will be glad to help direct you in a way that should make things much better for you.

[Zoe]

Here's a good link on crate and rotate, too.

http://www.pbrc.net/rotate.html

These are some other good links from Pit Bull Rescue Central for you...

http://www.pbrc.net/breedinfo.html

http://www.pbrc.net/fightinfo.html

http://www.pbrc.net/breakfight.html

http://www.pbrc.net/breaksticks.html

[Michele]

Originally Posted by crankin@roadrunner.com Please don't misunderstand, I stated previously my vet didn't have any suggestions except neutering him which, I said I am going to do. My husband is very upset and made the suggestion of putting him down if we can't find a solution. I love my dogs and would not put any of them down, that is a last resort. I will put them in separate rooms and speak to my son regarding the "new" rules with the dogs. I would have never thought it would come to this in my house.

If you like, have your husband come to the forum. Tell you husband that DA is a normal trait with this breed and certainly not a reason to have the dog put down. Managing the DA is the solution. Just please stress to your 12 year old that under no circumstances is he to handle more than one dog at a time.

[Marley]

Originally Posted by crankin@roadrunner.com My husband is very upset and made the suggestion of putting him down if we can't find a solution.

I find it interesting that your husband is so upset and, seemingly, surprised. Getting frustrated that a pit is DA is like getting mad at a Lab for retrieving. Its in their genetic code. This is a good topic for me since I have been procrastinating on getting our male fixed.

[crankin@roadrunner.com]

I guess I'm sorry I joined. We are not uneducated. We have owned this breed of dog for over 12 years. I was looking for advice on what to do. Our dogs are well socialized and have never been aggressive before, I know it is a breed trait. I know DA doesn't "go away." It should be manageable though. I am not even sure it is DA. Ours are family dogs..... My dogs are well taken care of and I would never put my dog to sleep unless it was a safety issue for the family. Everyone seems hung up on that issue. I have contacted my vet again and have an appointment for neutering him and to start doing additional behavior training. I appreciate the good advice from some however, I don't appreciate being made to feel ignorant regarding my dogs. I was simply looking for some support as I would give to any fellow dog owner. This is a new experience for us as a family and it is difficult.

[Marley]

Whoops.

[fearlessknight]

Originally Posted by crankin@roadrunner.com I guess I'm sorry I joined. We are not uneducated. We have owned this breed of dog for over 12 years. I was looking for advice on what to do. Our dogs are well socialized and have never been aggressive before, I know it is a breed trait. I know DA doesn't "go away." It should be manageable though. I am not even sure it is DA. Ours are family dogs..... My dogs are well taken care of and I would never put my dog to sleep unless it was a safety issue for the family. Everyone seems hung up on that issue. I have contacted my vet again and have an appointment for neutering him and to start doing additional behavior training. I appreciate the good advice from some however, I don't appreciate being made to feel ignorant regarding my dogs. I was simply looking for some support as I would give to any fellow dog owner. This is a new experience for us as a family and it is difficult.

Well, I am going to say this....If I or my post in way shape or form made you feel that way....then I am sorry......BUT
If you have owned this breed for 12 years, then I feel you should not have to come to internet to ask what you should about DA....I mean t hat is rule number one when it comes to this breed, so to say you are not uneducated, well, I am sorry, I have to disagree with you on that, bcause after 12 years you should know about it and how to handle it, and know that you cannot train it out of them, and how to break up a fight....do you own a breakstick? Do you know how to use it? Does your son know how to use it? Your husband/wife?

If you know all about this breed, then I also feel that you would not leave these dogs unattended while gone to work and school, at home to play together....we are all trying to help youand your situation, but in order for us to do so, you are going to have to listen, and listen to it all for the most part..not just what sounds good to you.

The crate and rotate....I understand you do not do it, but you need to start......and neuturing, like I said...is not going to stop your "pit bull" from being DA......but it needs to be done anyways...and training him, will only allow you to control while WITH him, not throughout the day while everyone is gone.

Stick around, we are a friendly bunch here and want to help you....