[JSimon]

My roommate brought home a 7 month old un-neutered mal red nose puppy. He loves people, we have that established and continue to work on that now that he is 9 months old. He is still un-neutered but we are having that procedure done this week. The past 2 months that we have had him...he started off playing well with other dogs and sometimes does. Lately...meaning within the pst 2 to 3 weeks he will sometimes attack other dogs especially if the other dog tries to show dominance in any way. He jumps on them growls and will not take his attention or focus off theh other dog until that dog has left his site. I have in previous situations used submissive training meaning putting him on his back and not letting him up until he relaxes completely...this may take 20 to 25 minutes sometimes.

My goal is to have him friendly and able to go to dog parks and beaches where there are other dogs and not have him whining, yelping, and barking at them when we walk by.
Him being a pitbull this is important to me. My questions is after he is neutered this week....What techniques can I use to get him "out of the zone" when other dogs are present? Do I still have time with this dog being that he is 9 month old male, and the previous owners didn't socailize him very well at all? What training techniques can you recommened? I have owned pitbulls before(18 years ago) as well as other dogs since then and have had success.
I do plan on obedience classes with other dogs as well, but i want some foundation before joining that classes and upsetting all the non pitbull owners...

Thank you reading my post and thank you for your time
JSimon

[dontbe10]

classes and neutering might help a bit, but if your dog is showing dog aggressiveness and is a pit bull there might be little you can do to change this behavior. pit bulls were bred to fight and while some can be friendly with dogs some will be dog aggressive no matter what. it is a genetic trait that cannot be trained or socialized out of the dog.

[Michele]

This breed can be DA (dog aggressive) which is a normal trait. I would also suggest not taking him to dog parks. This breed wants human interaction much more than dog interaction.

Here is a thread regarding different dog tolerence levels:

http://www.pitbull-chat.com/showthread.php?t=21366

Dog Parks:

http://www.pitbull-chat.com/showthread.php?t=3113

[Mollie's Nana]

Michele gave great tips, these may help as well.

Always expect a bulldog to fight:
http://www.pitbull-chat.com/showthread.php?t=13984


Degrees of exposure:
http://www.pitbull-chat.com/showthread.php?t=33757

[jillibean87]

Keep in mind that having a dog who is DA is not a bad thing. Having only had labs before Bubba, I was surprised and incredibly embarassed when he would be unfriendly towards other dogs. After being on PBC(you guys rock!) I understand better that it is okay that Bubba doesn't have dog friends! He and Riley love each other but he doesn't really have other friends and it's A-OK!

[novadogmom]

Hey - I know what you mean. I used to have the same problem.
Pittbulls have a natural and strong tendency to want to please their owners.
However, if the owner doesn't take that position as the alpha (which applies to all aspects of the dog's life) the dog will try to become the alpha themself.
This is why dogs attack each other in an accidental sense.
yes pitts and bullies are a little more naturally aggressive than other breeds - but they are just as trainable.

One thing I noticed, was that my dog usually attacks dogs who are the "weakest" or most submissive. The dogs who sit in the corner with their tail tucked between their legs. or the dog who is SUPER EXCITED and uncontrolable.
my dog associates anything that is unstable with her needing to dominate and attack it. and due to her breed - she latches on and wont let go.
I dont freak out over it because I have been trained to break up fights and understand dogs - but most people freak out.
It took me 6 months - but I had to figure it out **what is triggering her to act like that***
it was NOT gender, NOT size, NOT breed, NOT smell.
but it WAS BEHAVIOR and BODY LANGUAGE of the other dog.

so what I have done - which is probably a little more extensive than most - is I have started using the vibrating collar. (it vibrates like the way a cell phone does)

you put it on their neck and I have tried it myself and it does not hurt what so ever.

It startles them and takes their mind off of whatever it was on (in our case - the unstable dog).

So now when we go to the dog park, Roxy wears her collar and I have the remote.
Whenever she goes near an unstable dog and begins to show dominating tendencies, I give her a little buzz and she backs off immediately.

What I have done is shown her that whenever she is near a dog that is unstable and she displays dominant tendencies (aggressive) she will receive a buzz.
she now associates instability with a buzz and will automatically not go near it.

It's an unbeatable solution if you know how to make it work correctly.

please be careful though if you try this because sending the wrong signal could escalate things even more.

if you need help feel free to message me.

best of luck!!

[GoingPostal]

Novadogmom, why are you talking a known aggressive dog to a dog park at all? Seems like a dumb idea to me and a huge risk if she decides the fight is worth the "buzz" she gets. I can guarentee a vibrating collar wouldn't convince my male to stay away from his favorite thing (springpole) and sure wouldn't stop him from grabbing and killing another dog. This breed runs through electric fences like crazy as well, because the shock isn't enough to bother them. Also those type of collars are never recommended for use on aggression as they have to decide what the correction is for and from, they might think it's the strange dog causing that feeling, or the dog beside it, or you and the problem gets tons worse.

[Teal]

novadogmom - that is one the scariest posts to read EVER. If you think a simple "buzz" is going to stop hundreds of years of genetics - you are WRONG. I learned the hard way a phrase that I often repeat... "GENETICS TRUMPS TRAINING." No matter how well trained your dog is, what they are BRED to do is going to prevail.

To the OP - your dog is a pit bull. Pit bulls are not bred to be dog social. Having a DA pit bull is not going to put a black mark on the breed, as long as you handle it properly. Don't set your dog up to fail!! Avoid dog parks, and off leash areas with dogs. Lots of training, and focus work. Your dog is DA - work with it, because you can't get rid of it!

[JSimon]

I have read up on the comments...thank you for replying so quickly...I will continue to train myself as well as the dog in the socialization...I have, thanks to the replys, a lot of avenues to take from here...lots of informational websites to read...you;ll be hearing updates from me...

[novadogmom]

I know that sounds scary - i just re read it lol
i guess it may not work for a lot of people, but it works for us.
she's not aggressive anymore

but she's an american bulldog, not a pitt.
although I think ABs are harder to train

I dont take her to the park very often, but she does get to socialize with other dogs all the time.

We just had to do a lot of learning thats all

[ugobananas]

novadogmom: you say she is "not aggressive anymore" - that implies that you believe you trained her out of it. Please go back and carefully read what Teal said.

I'd really hate for you to come in here some day with a tragic story to tell that starts something like this "She's never done this before!" and ends with an injured or even dead dog.

PLEASE read the link michele posted about Dog Parks.

[Teal]

novadogmom -

She IS still aggressive... she may have just not had any incidents lately that exhibit it.

Your dog is STILL a BULL BREED... which means she doesn't have to get along with other dogs, per her genetics!

I know making comparisons between humans and dogs isn't always a good idea... but think of it like this - someone who was raised speaking French is taught to speak another language, but they are still more comfortable with French... they might be able to get by with speaking another language, but when they are angry/stressed/scared/etc. they are going to scream in French, NOT the learned language. It's not completely accurate, obviously... but it can be relative - Your dog started out not getting along with other dogs... you have taught her, somewhat and with inconsistent results, to be around other dogs - but if something goes down, that training is NOT going to be what's going through her head!

YOU ARE SETTING YOUR DOG UP FOR FAILURE. And only YOU can be blamed for it... but, when something happens - your DOG is going to get the blame.

Just remember - if she kills or injured another dog, be prepared for your dog to be deemed dangerous and taken from you and KILLED (depending on laws in your area regarding dangerous dogs).

I just can't fathom why you'd want to risk your dog, so you can pretend your dog is dog social?

[pitless2208]

Yikes.

As Teal said novadogmom- you are only setting your dog up to fail. You can NOT train out genetics....no amount of love, alpha rolls, or vibrations from a training collar is going to make them away.

Can training help manage it? Absolutely. But to think you "cured" your dog's aggression with a vibrating collar is scary indeed and again, only setting them up to fail.

The same people I hear saying "he's not aggressive anymore!" are usually the same ones coming back a few months later saying "I don't know what happened! He was doing so well with his training." after their dog decides to latch on to fluffy the poodle at the local dog park one day. In turn the dog will be blamed of course- and the breed as a whole takes yet another slap in the face.

Please do take a look at the dog park sticky....

[Cream is Pitbulls]

Its natural dog agression she is does have it in her after all and Novadogmen please do not take her to a dog park its not gonna stop like teal and everyone else you can not simply take out the genetics Imt lling Im gonna pray for your dog it will not stop JMO Traning can calm her down but to think you can easily take out the genetics like that no it will not work she may not be a pitbull but she is a American Bulldog the same situations till implies she has some or shall i say alot of those Bull breeds in that mix so it just makes the situation worst so Im gonna keep my hopes alive for you

[Flametree]

Originally Posted by JSimon My roommate brought home a 7 month old un-neutered mal red nose puppy. He loves people, we have that established and continue to work on that now that he is 9 months old. He is still un-neutered but we are having that procedure done this week. The past 2 months that we have had him...he started off playing well with other dogs and sometimes does. Lately...meaning within the pst 2 to 3 weeks he will sometimes attack other dogs especially if the other dog tries to show dominance in any way. He jumps on them growls and will not take his attention or focus off theh other dog until that dog has left his site. I have in previous situations used submissive training meaning putting him on his back and not letting him up until he relaxes completely...this may take 20 to 25 minutes sometimes. My goal is to have him friendly and able to go to dog parks and beaches where there are other dogs and not have him whining, yelping, and barking at them when we walk by. Him being a pitbull this is important to me. My questions is after he is neutered this week....What techniques can I use to get him "out of the zone" when other dogs are present? Do I still have time with this dog being that he is 9 month old male, and the previous owners didn't socailize him very well at all? What training techniques can you recommened? I have owned pitbulls before(18 years ago) as well as other dogs since then and have had success. I do plan on obedience classes with other dogs as well, but i want some foundation before joining that classes and upsetting all the non pitbull owners... Thank you reading my post and thank you for your time JSimon

If your dog is a "real" a "true" APBT then no amount of socializing will make him stable enough to be around other dogs. Especially a dog park you may train him enough to stay by your side. I have had littermates pups turn on each other at 7 months. I had a daughter attack her mother,,mother died 2 months later. A true well bred APBT will never get along with another dog except maybe a neutered dog. Now there are dogs that have had all the life and drive bred out of them and I believe they are no longer APBT. Perhaps if you get one of the Bullie dogs that have absolutely no drive you might be able to take those to a dog park.

[monkeys23]

If your goal is to have a dog park dog, then maybe you should rehome the bull breed dog into a bull breed home and find a different breed of dog to own.

DA is a trait in all the bulldog breeds and in various other dog breeds as well.

Frankley I don't think dog parks are that great for ANY dog. I've seen so many owners let their dogs do stupid shit in regular parks, why the hell would I take my baby to an out of control off lead situation and trust that every moron in this world has a well mannered dog they are in control of?

[ugobananas]

Originally Posted by monkeys23 Frankley I don't think dog parks are that great for ANY dog. I've seen so many owners let their dogs do stupid shit in regular parks, why the hell would I take my baby to an out of control off lead situation and trust that every moron in this world has a well mannered dog they are in control of?

Yeah, I've been to the dog park with my sister and her dog a few times and I've witnessed SO many irresponsible and, well, stupid owners there with poorly-trained dogs.

[amanda214]

Originally Posted by novadogmom One thing I noticed, was that my dog usually attacks dogs who are the "weakest" or most submissive. The dogs who sit in the corner with their tail tucked between their legs. or the dog who is SUPER EXCITED and uncontrollable. my dog associates anything that is unstable with her needing to dominate and attack it. and due to her breed - she latches on and wont let go. I dont freak out over it because I have been trained to break up fights and understand dogs - but most people freak out. It took me 6 months - but I had to figure it out **what is triggering her to act like that*** it was NOT gender, NOT size, NOT breed, NOT smell. but it WAS BEHAVIOR and BODY LANGUAGE of the other dog.

Interesting - this is my pit bull NINJA exactly!

However, please take the advice of others in this forum, especially the part about not going to dog parks!

[Teal]

Originally Posted by Flametree If your dog is a "real" a "true" APBT then no amount of socializing will make him stable enough to be around other dogs. Especially a dog park you may train him enough to stay by your side. I have had littermates pups turn on each other at 7 months. I had a daughter attack her mother,,mother died 2 months later. A true well bred APBT will never get along with another dog except maybe a neutered dog. Now there are dogs that have had all the life and drive bred out of them and I believe they are no longer APBT. Perhaps if you get one of the Bullie dogs that have absolutely no drive you might be able to take those to a dog park.

Umm... no.

And here's why...

1. Pit bulls that are dog aggressive ARE stable. Pit bulls that are human aggressive are NOT stable. So, you can't say that you can't make a pit bull "stable enough" to get along with other dogs... because stability and dog aggression are not related in this breed - that would be HUMAN aggression and stability.

2. A true, well bred APBT does not equal a dog that will instantly not EVER get along with other dogs. I know several gamedogs that live together in a HOUSE and interact daily without wanting to take each others' faces off all the time. Sure, they don't get along ALL the time... but neither do MY dogs!

3. Saying that true, well bred APBTs will only possibly get along with a neutered male makes me laugh. My male is neutered (and has been since 7 months old) and he developed dog aggression as he matured just like a lot of pit bulls do. Being a neutered male doesn't make him passive, and therefor doesn't make him any less likely to be on the "good list" of a DA dog.

Some dogs do better with puppies and not adults. Some dogs do better with dogs smaller than them, but not the same size or larger... or the exact opposite. Some dogs do better with the opposite sex, yet there are also those who do better with the same sex.

And let's not forget the dogs who are just as choosy as people when deciding who they like... and it's hit or miss depending on EACH dog they encounter.

[monkeys23]

Very well said Teal.