[Wiggle_Butt]

Shelby is very submissive around other dogs.
How can I tell if she is being too submissive and is it a bad trait?

[Michele]

Can you tell us exactly what she does? Thanks.

[Rai_77]

Really need more info, like Michelle said. If you are referring to rolling on the back, I would really not allow that. Too many vital organs exposed in that position, and some dogs will take full advantage of that opening. I do not allow my dogs to roll each other over, and if they do start, they are immediately separated.

[Drgnrdr]

I do not allow my dogs to roll each other over

I have never seen a dog physically grab and roll another dog over on their back, I thought opposable thumbs were needed to do that.

Need more info really, in dog language if the one dog accidently or goes at a dog enough and gets a dog to fall or goes to ground, the other dog will roll over cause he lost that test. Submissive roll over is meant to calm a threat and show that the dog submitting is not a threat to an apporaching dog, but if the dog is not threatening and the other dog rolls in submission some dogs will go after it because it is showing an "imbalance". Did I explain that right??
My head hurts sorry gotta go to work, love the avatar of bully on scooter as santa...HA HA
sorry avatar not here...but I still love it, can someone tell them I do,, whoever is here???

[Rai_77]

Originally Posted by Drgnrdr I have never seen a dog physically grab and roll another dog over on their back, I thought opposable thumbs were needed to do that. ...

Ooops! I didn't mean it that way. I meant the regular old rolling over on your back and exposing your tummy to show submission. Not that my dogs were actually rolling each other over.

[Wiggle_Butt]

Well the other day I meet my buddy and his 6 month pit pup at the local pond for some play time.
As soon as they got close to us Shelby tucked her head and tail and then she went belly up.

Lucy, the other dog, seems to be very dominating but I've only been around her a few times plus the fact that she was in heat didn't help matters I'm sure.

Normally Shelby just does the head tuck and turn to the side deal even around Ginger who she has grown up with. This is the frst time I've seen her roll over.

After we left the pond we went back to my buddy's house and Shelby and Lucy had a great time chasing each other till they wore themselves out.

[Rai_77]

Agression is so much more likely in intact animals. I would never have a playdate with an intact dog.

If you are feeling uncomfortable at all with the interaction, you should end the play dates.

[Wiggle_Butt]

Originally Posted by Rai_77 Agression is so much more likely in intact animals. I would never have a playdate with an intact dog. If you are feeling uncomfortable at all with the interaction, you should end the play dates.

I just wanted to know if Shelby was being too submissive.

[maryellen]

Rai aggression can also be with speutered dogs as well. i have seen speutered dogs act more aggressively then some intact dogs...i have a gsd who is spayed who is aggressive to dogs, so it doesnt really matter which is worse as both can be aggressive.

[bahamutt99]

How old is Shelby? Its normal for young dogs to show submission to older or more dominant dogs. With my two females, the 6-month-old always shows puppy submission to the adult female, which has probably gone a long way towards allowing them to interact. If Terra didn't show appropriate submissive reactions, Loki would likely be more opposed to her presence.

That said, I don't allow excessive or strenuous posturing, because I'm the alpha, and I'm the one they need to be worrying about pleasing. But normal displays of displeasure, avoidance, submission, etc., I let happen because I think they aid in some level of pack cohesion. In essence, it allows them to be dogs, and work out small stuff on their own, without me stepping in for everything. (However, I always supervise, as I am well aware of what kind of dogs I'm dealing with.)

[maryellen]

Wiggle Butt, i honestly dont see anything wrong with Shelby being submissive to other dogs, as long as it doesnt get her into trouble .... some dogs are just submissive to others, even puppies... i would rather have a dog act like shelby on meeting other dogs then a dominant dog like rufus who has to let be known right off the bat he wants to be the dominant one...

[Rai_77]

Originally Posted by maryellen Rai aggression can also be with speutered dogs as well. i have seen speutered dogs act more aggressively then some intact dogs...i have a gsd who is spayed who is aggressive to dogs, so it doesnt really matter which is worse as both can be aggressive.

Of course altered dogs can also be aggressive, but there is overwhelming evidence that indicate altering your dog can greatly decrease aggresive behavior as opposed to leaving them intact.

http://www.hsus.org/pets/pet_care/wh..._your_pet.html

http://www.veterinarypartner.com/Content.plx?P=A&A=1570

http://www.peteducation.com/article....&articleid=165

http://www.sptimes.com/2007/04/06/Ta...tact_dog.shtml

[Rai_77]

Originally Posted by Wiggle_Butt I just wanted to know if Shelby was being too submissive.

In that case, I haven't seen anything from what you've posted that would indicate she is. Signs of being overly submissive would be urinating when taking the submissive position, cowering around other dogs, and fearful avoidance of the other dogs.

[Wiggle_Butt]

Originally Posted by bahamutt99 How old is Shelby? Its normal for young dogs to show submission to older or more dominant dogs. With my two females, the 6-month-old always shows puppy submission to the adult female, which has probably gone a long way towards allowing them to interact. If Terra didn't show appropriate submissive reactions, Loki would likely be more opposed to her presence. That said, I don't allow excessive or strenuous posturing, because I'm the alpha, and I'm the one they need to be worrying about pleasing. But normal displays of displeasure, avoidance, submission, etc., I let happen because I think they aid in some level of pack cohesion. In essence, it allows them to be dogs, and work out small stuff on their own, without me stepping in for everything. (However, I always supervise, as I am well aware of what kind of dogs I'm dealing with.)

She just turned 1yr old. The other dog is younger, this is her first heat cycle.

It wasn't an excessive submission, no urinating or show of fear and in 20 mins they were playing together.