[Rai_77]

Okay, I know that pit fights are not the snarling, growl fests that most people would think they would be. But my boy is *always* quiet.

I'm trying to figure out how much of this is attributed to his past (suspected abuse) and how much is just a trait of the breed? He is my first purebred APBT.

Example: last night, I was walking both dogs. A guy pulled up to ask for directions. I hadn't noticed at first. My boy was sniffing something. My girl barked, boy was ready to jump through guy's window. I called both off. This is typical for my male. He never starts things, but he is always ready to go when needed. But he never gives any warning.

After I work him in the park, I'll let him sit with me, and he likes to rest his head on my shoulder, like a hug. But he is staring at people. I know he is! He is very protective of me, which is good, but we are working on him only protecting when I tell him it's okay to do so.

A girlfriend was over one day, and her daughter walked in my front door without knocking. My boy lunged at her, completely silently. Lucky she shut the door quickly. Apparently, he knows that you always knock first. He did not snap or bite, he used his entire body to push her back out of the door.



We have been doing great with his training so far, and he now does not react to people knocking on doors, or walking by. But if he knows I am not paying attention, he makes sure he is. I take both dogs to work with me, and when I leave the car, he watches me from the time I leave to the time I come back. He does nothing else. In fact, I have been able to sneak up on him because he will not stop looking in the direction that I left. If my son is in the car with him, he places his body between my son and the car door and he does not move. (98% of the time, my car is in my plain view and I am rarely gone for longer than 5 minutes)

Anyway, just wanted some thoughts on this. Normal pittie behavior?

[maryellen]

unfortunately its not normal behavior of the breed.

this is very scary

girlfriend was over one day, and her daughter walked in my front door without knocking. My boy lunged at her, completely silently. Lucky she shut the door quickly. Apparently, he knows that you always knock first. He did not snap or bite, he used his entire body to

the breed should not lunge after anyone entering your home... they are not a guardian breed, nor were bred to be...

you have alot of work to do with your dog if you plan on keeping the JQ public safe, and the breed itself...

i would get a behaviorist/trainer to work with you on these issues, and to always make sure you do not set up your dog to fail .

[Michele]

I agree with Maryellen. Lunging at humans is not normal for this breed.

but we are working on him only protecting when I tell him it's okay to do so.

I'm curious as to how you do this? And why?

[Lassic]

Wow i cant believe that, Goodluck on the training.

[screamin'eagle]

Not normal behavior...nor is it safe.

Do you know how he is bred?

It is my gut feeling that these traits have less to do with suspected abuse and more to do with genetic wiring. Believe me the temperment of the true American Pitbull Terrier should be rock solid! Abuse usually won't change this. Its been my experience that no matter how mistreated an APBT has been...the humans couldn't ruin him. Now this is a generalization, and there are exceptions, but rock solid temperment is the standard. I'm sure you've seen or heard examples of rescue dogs which are horribly abused...burned on grills, knives shoved in their heads etc. and they still wiggle butt when they meet humans, and are a very friendly breed.

The short of it is try to train it out, but be completely honest with yourself about that dog. Frankly, a bulldog that is lunging at people has no place in this world. Legally, if he did "protect you" in a real situation...chances are because he's a "pitbull" you'll lose legally. Just a sad, but honest truth! If you can not honestly remedy this behavior, and I don't jump to this conclusion lightly, he needs to be humanely euth'd. That is a very dangeruous situation within a household.

But yes...apparently silent and apparently unprovoked attacks (Dog Agression!) are a breed trait. For generations threat response was selectively bred out of our dogs ancestors, and we have to know dog body language to avoid trouble.

[Rai_77]

Originally Posted by maryellen unfortunately its not normal behavior of the breed. this is very scary the breed should not lunge after anyone entering your home... they are not a guardian breed, nor were bred to be... you have alot of work to do with your dog if you plan on keeping the JQ public safe, and the breed itself... i would get a behaviorist/trainer to work with you on these issues, and to always make sure you do not set up your dog to fail .

This happened a while ago, I do have a professional trainer, and it is no longer an issue. My question was mainly on the silence before anything happens.

[maryellen]

some dogs are just that, silent... my gsd is like that, she is extremely quiet, doesnt show any bad intentions... the only thing she does is open and close her mouth a little, its the only warning sign she gives..

other dogs will whine, bark, or pretend to play.. some just are that, silent..

[Rai_77]

Originally Posted by screamin'eagle Do you know how he is bred? .... The short of it is try to train it out, but be completely honest with yourself about that dog. Frankly, a bulldog that is lunging at people has no place in this world. Legally, if he did "protect you" in a real situation...chances are because he's a "pitbull" you'll lose legally. Just a sad, but honest truth! If you can not honestly remedy this behavior, and I don't jump to this conclusion lightly, he needs to be humanely euth'd. That is a very dangeruous situation within a household. ....

Now see, if I hadn't already seen this on another thread, I would *not* understand this question! But no, I have no idea about his background. He was abandoned at a vet's office at about a year of age.

It wasn't acceptable, and has been dealt with, no longer an issue. In his defense, he was protecting me, but, like I said, he can't be the one making those decisions.

[Rai_77]

Originally Posted by Michele I agree with Maryellen. Lunging at humans is not normal for this breed. I'm curious as to how you do this? And why?

I wasn't asking about the lunging. I was wondering about the silence before he does anything. I am aware that the lunging is not acceptable.

As far as 'how you do this'. Simple. Training. NILIF. He does nothing until I tell him he should. If there is a perceived threat, he should look to me first before taking any action, as it should be in a good pack.

As far as 'why' I would do it...it's to establish pack structure and not allow him to be dominate over me.

He was not kept as a house pet before I had him. In fact, there are numerous reasons to think he was abused, and it has been a lot of work teaching him how to act as part of a household.

[tat2stuff]

Originally Posted by Rai_77 This happened a while ago, I do have a professional trainer, and it is no longer an issue. My question was mainly on the silence before anything happens.

Barking and snarling are threat displays generally used to avoid a fight, Bulldogs don't generally display this kind of action because they were bred to fight. They will just go in and take care of business, so to speak.

[Rai_77]

Originally Posted by screamin'eagle It is my gut feeling that these traits have less to do with suspected abuse and more to do with genetic wiring. Believe me the temperment of the true American Pitbull Terrier should be rock solid! Abuse usually won't change this. Its been my experience that no matter how mistreated an APBT has been...the humans couldn't ruin him. Now this is a generalization, and there are exceptions, but rock solid temperment is the standard. I'm sure you've seen or heard examples of rescue dogs which are horribly abused...burned on grills, knives shoved in their heads etc. and they still wiggle butt when they meet humans, and are a very friendly breed.

He *has* been temperment evaluated by his trainer (and no, not Petco), his veterinarian, and the SPCA after this incident. He is very friendly toward people, I just wanted to illustrate situations in which he reacted silently, because that was my question. He *is* overly protective of me, and that is the main thing we have been working on, getting him to accept that he will let me make the decisions. If I weren't in the house, he would have done nothing. But I was, and he thought he should step up. He did NOT snap or bite. I have zero issues with him otherwise (aside from the cats issue!). I can put my head in his food bowl if I wanted to without incident. Taking treats from him is no problem either. He submits when told to do so. Actually, he did get a hold of one of my cats when I first got him, and he released the cat because I put my hand in his mouth (yes, not my brightest moment, I know!).

[Michele]

Originally Posted by Rai_77 I wasn't asking about the lunging. I was wondering about the silence before he does anything. I am aware that the lunging is not acceptable. As far as 'how you do this'. Simple. Training. NILIF. He does nothing until I tell him he should. If there is a perceived threat, he should look to me first before taking any action, as it should be in a good pack. As far as 'why' I would do it...it's to establish pack structure and not allow him to be dominate over me. He was not kept as a house pet before I had him. In fact, there are numerous reasons to think he was abused, and it has been a lot of work teaching him how to act as part of a household.

I'm very familar with NILIF. I got a little confused by this sentence:

He is very protective of me, which is good, but we are working on him only protecting when I tell him it's okay to do so.

I read it like you were teaching him to attack on command. My mistake if I read it wrong.

[Rai_77]

Originally Posted by Michele I'm very familar with NILIF. I got a little confused by this sentence: I read it like you were teaching him to attack on command. My mistake if I read it wrong.

Oh, lol. Makes sense. Good God, no! And I'm afraid I made him sound much worse than he is, too, poor guy. I don't believe in having dogs for that purpose living with me. Yes, I expect them to put on a good show, but I wouldn't want them to actually *do* anything. First and foremost, because I wouldn't want to risk an intruder hurting them, secondly because I wouldn't want them to be pts for attacking.

My apolgies if I sounded rude, it wasn't meant to come off that way!

[Michele]

Originally Posted by Rai_77 Oh, lol. Makes sense. Good God, no! And I'm afraid I made him sound much worse than he is, too, poor guy. I don't believe in having dogs for that purpose living with me. Yes, I expect them to put on a good show, but I wouldn't want them to actually *do* anything. First and foremost, because I wouldn't want to risk an intruder hurting them, secondly because I wouldn't want them to be pts for attacking. My apolgies if I sounded rude, it wasn't meant to come off that way!

You weren't rude at all I just got confused. I think since I recently stopped smoking that might be adding to me being confused and dazed at times...LOL

[Rai_77]

Originally Posted by Michele I think since I recently stopped smoking that might be adding to me being confused and dazed at times...LOL

Good for you! I will send you anti-nicotine thoughts to help you keep it up!

Wait....it was cigarettes, right? Right?

[tat2stuff]

Originally Posted by Rai_77 He *has* been temperment evaluated by his trainer (and no, not Petco), his veterinarian, and the SPCA after this incident. He is very friendly toward people, I just wanted to illustrate situations in which he reacted silently, because that was my question. He *is* overly protective of me, and that is the main thing we have been working on, getting him to accept that he will let me make the decisions. If I weren't in the house, he would have done nothing. But I was, and he thought he should step up. He did NOT snap or bite. I have zero issues with him otherwise (aside from the cats issue!). I can put my head in his food bowl if I wanted to without incident. Taking treats from him is no problem either. He submits when told to do so. Actually, he did get a hold of one of my cats when I first got him, and he released the cat because I put my hand in his mouth (yes, not my brightest moment, I know!).

were any of these people behaviorists? Just curious. I would still be concerned with an overly protective bulldog, as this really isn't a natural trait for the dog, and could pose a bite danger for someone.

a little off topic but in your first post you said this was your first purebred APBT, but later you say you have no idea about his background, he was abandoned at a vet's office at about a year of age. I'm confused on how you know he is a purebred APBT.

[Michele]

Originally Posted by Rai_77 Good for you! I will send you anti-nicotine thoughts to help you keep it up! Wait....it was cigarettes, right? Right?

LMAOOO..yes, it was cigarettes....

[DryCreek]

Originally Posted by tat2stuff Barking and snarling are threat displays generally used to avoid a fight, Bulldogs don't generally display this kind of action because they were bred to fight. They will just go in and take care of business, so to speak.

Good answer! Owners of this breed (and many others as well I should add) must become very adept at reading the body language of their dogs. This is not to say that this holds true to all of them but the many I've seen and dealt with show this to be a strong trend as they mature.

The showing of teeth, the hackles rising, the vocalization and the rearing up on hind legs in an episode between 2 dogs is them trying to avoid conflict by making themselves look bigger and more threatening. It's a display the same as a peacock's tail feathers LOL. (Just a little more intense)

I'd like to also add that this silence is NOT just a trait of THIS breed. It's a dog trait. If any breed is serious about an attack against another animal (including humans) it's not likely to warn you first by barking or growling, it just does it. Barks and growls are a dogs way of saying back off, don't make me do this.

[Rai_77]

Originally Posted by tat2stuff were any of these people behaviorists? Just curious. I would still be concerned with an overly protective bulldog, as this really isn't a natural trait for the dog, and could pose a bite danger for someone. a little off topic but in your first post you said this was your first purebred APBT, but later you say you have no idea about his background, he was abandoned at a vet's office at about a year of age. I'm confused on how you know he is a purebred APBT.

Yes, the SPCA evaluator is a behaviorist.

I suppose without a DNA test, I don't have any definitive way of knowing if he is fully an APBT or not, and it's highly doubtful he is a well bred one, regardless. The vet adopted him as an APBT. I've never had anyone question what breed he is. Does he look like something different to you?

He's also passed this test:

http://www.nrta.com/breedforfoundation/temptest.html
http://www.pbrc.net/temperament.html

[Michele]

I take both dogs to work with me, and when I leave the car, he watches me from the time I leave to the time I come back.

they don't stay in the car while you are working, do they?