[Salgonza]

So i want to take Lexus to puppy training. I was thinking about petco/petsmart for the puppy class. It's what, around $100.

What do you all think?

[pyrless]

Save about $85 and get this book:

"The Other End of the Leash" by Patricia McConnell, PhD. This woman really knows her stuff. She teaches you to train your dog by thinking and moving like your dog, so there is very little misunderstanding and as a result very little miscommunication.

I think she has a website but i can't remember the name of it, you should be able to find her on Google though. Whatever you decide, good luck!

[Salgonza]

But isnt the socilization with other breeds of dogs in a controlled inviornment better for her?

[pyrless]

Oh yeah, sure, that's definitely a big part of her upbringing! But you don't need a group training class for that. When I got my first puppy somebody told me that in the first month that puppy has to meet 100 different people and 50 different dogs, all ages, shapes and sizes. So I took him out in the neighborhood, to the store, to friend's houses, through the car wash, anywhere that would have us.

[Salgonza]

What kind of dog did you have?

[pyrless]

I've got four, two pyrs, an elkhound cross and a pom. I raised the elkhound cross and one of the pyrs from puppies, the other two are rescue senior dogs. The Elkhound cross (Taz) was easy, he's a real social butterfly. The Pyr (Sasha) was harder. Great Pyrs are by nature aloof, stubborn as mules, not thrilled about strangers touching them, and bigger than everything else.-laugh- But to keep the aloof nature from turning into fear, that early socialization for her was key.

[Lucy Loo]

I took Lucy thru Petsmart training, and it was strictly for socialization. They use the Clicker/Watch Me Method. It's great to get a puppys attentions. She had a great time, but she didn't learn much-not by any fault of theirs but simply because of Lucys attention span. But I have to say she really enjoyed the classes. They focus on positive reinforcement and lots of treats. Any time I want her to do something now I have to have a "cookie" in my hand. She was more concerned with playing with Earl, an English Bulldog puppy that chewed on her as much as she chewed on him. I can't knock the classes, though-if you want your dog to get to know other dogs and learn some simple obedience in a classroom setting, Petsmart is the way to go. I do feel that it helped Lucy out alot. I still take her to Petsmart almost every Sunday, if for nothing else to walk her around and keep her used to being around people and other dogs. She's 9 months old right now and I don't know if she will always be so gracious to everyone and everything, but I keep trying. It's hard to keep the kids away from her though. They love her. Some of their parents almost die on the spot when they see their child being licked by a bully. And Lucy is a jumper, she loves to jump on people, and this is something that I have found impossible to break her of. I am thinking of having a personal trainer work with her. He trains military and police dogs. I don't know if this is too extreme or what, but I just want her to be the best behaved bully in the neighborhood. But he's going to cost a fortune. Sometimes I still wish for those days at Petsmart, when she was a little bully who would do anything for a cookie.

[Salgonza]

yea im definatly going to do it. She wont get stuck on cookies because im going to feed her raw after awhile. So i wont have any to give her. Maybe from frozen green tripe or something instead.

[maryellen]

YES to petco group training as long as its all positive, and no jerking of leashes or choke collars...

socialization for Lexus is very important, as she is living at her breeders house and hasnt gotten out like she should have... invest in the $100 for the 7 week class, have fun there, and if possible take another class when this one is over.. plus socialize her out in public... its VERY necessary to work with her in a setting so that she and you learn how to act in public around other people/dogs...

buy books too, but the best type of socialization is group training classes and regular outings as well..

[screamin'eagle]

Originally Posted by Salgonza So i want to take Lexus to puppy training. I was thinking about petco/petsmart for the puppy class. It's what, around $100. What do you all think?

I've always thought that the Petsmart classes were a waste, but I guess this can vary regionally, and even by store depending on the skill level of the instructor. The ones I've seen have been full of kids, plenty of other distractions in the store, etc. etc. If this is a goal of yours I'd recommend that you also look into a private dog trainer with experience with this breed. I assume that the Petsmart class can be good for socialization, but if that's your main goal save the $100 bucks and follow this schedule (also to understand developmental stages in canines)...
http://www.diamondsintheruff.com/Dev...talStages.html
and here's some more socialization tips...
http://www.pitbulllovers.com/trainin...-pit-bull.html

but IMO you'd be better off training privately. There are lots of great books out there (many owners do lack the ability to be consistant and honest enough with themselves to make head wind this way), and positive methods are the way to go.

[Michele]

So I took him out in the neighborhood, to the store, to friend's houses, through the car wash, anywhere that would have us.

Pyrless: I did this with JC too

[Drgnrdr]

Any time I want her to do something now I have to have a "cookie" in my hand

your trainer should have shown you how to avoid that. Alot of my students don't listen when I tell them about random reinforcement and fading the lure, but when I ask them "do you want to have a treat just to get them to listen all the time?" then they understand.

I guess this can vary regionally, and even by store depending on the skill level of the instructor.

yes true. I would talk to the instructor and see what experience they have, the diploma on the Kiosk has their graduation date from school, but talk to them, they may have 30 yrs experience are retired and so work at Petsmart for a year only, but they back up their education with real life experience. Watch a class, see how it's handled, is the trainer attentive, and making them selves heard and they listen, are the dogs all over the place, and the trainer isn't addressing the issue? Sometimes it's the owners not following thru what the trainer tells them, I had 3 barkers in my first class one day, and I couldn't even intro myself until that was addressed, I got one then the second then got the 3rd: a intact chi mix, he growled at me and I made sure they knew I was going nowhere and they needed to knock it off, they did, and went under the chair, and looked at me, then urned away, differing to me, then I got down to their level and held my hand and gave a peace offering (chick jerky), they came out and took it and then sat in front of the owner, and all 3 shut up, and I told the owners what I did and for them to do it immeadiately if they acted up again, and the other 5 ppl were dropped jawed, that I took control the first 5 minutes of class, that's where experience counts, it's hard to make a first impression a second time.
Ppl say Petsmart is just a cookie cutter training porgram, (yes they have a certain curriculum to follow, mainly developed by renowned trainer Suzanne Hetts) but, find a good trainer and they are invaluable no matter what, it a good place to have distractions and ppl and dogs walking around, and work with, you can't train in a bubble, and expect your dog to act the same when you take them in a crazy situation. The stores are a nice way to train, just basic stuff.
Disclaimer:
All opinions above are the posters only, not to be misinterpreted coming from Petsmart.

[lizardobeck]

I agree with Screamingeagle on this one, I feel that the one on one training I did with Fred for the first three months I had him were the best thing for him & me. My trainer would mix in socializing every now & again but Fred was around dogs alot with me so I wasn't really doing the training for the soc. benifit. I really just don't think those pet co petsmart classes will make you feel like you accomplished anything with your dog at the end of the day. I stand behide one on one training, then classes with other dogs.

[Rai_77]

I personally like leerburg

http://leerburg.com/dogtrainingebooks.htm

lots of *free* dog training e-books on his site.

As far as classes, I think they are an accident waiting to happen. You have too many people there with dogs they can't control. Actually have heard several stories about dog attacks happening in the middle of class. IMO, with a breed known for dog aggression, I just don't see the point in taking that risk. And whether you dog started it or not, if he's a bullybreed, he will be blamed.

I think, more than your dog being friendly with other dogs, your dog should look to you first before he acts on anything. You dog doesn't *have* to like other dogs, he does *have* to listen to you when you tell him it's not acceptable to attack other dogs, and he *has* to be able to be walked in public without lunging and trying to maul every dog or person he sees.

I would invest in a professional in home trainer. Mine ran $600 bucks. Visit regular parks, petco/petsmart/feedstores...even Home Depot..anywhere that allows you to bring your dog inside, for socialization and manners proofing.

[zada]

Originally Posted by Salgonza So i want to take Lexus to puppy training. I was thinking about petco/petsmart for the puppy class. It's what, around $100. What do you all think?

i would make sure petsmart allows bully breeds in the class. they dont allow them in "doggie day camp" at all. i hate petsmart though so my decision is a little one sided.

[Drgnrdr]

Petsmart's policy on who is allowed in group class:
They do not allow dogs that are aggressive to unfamiliar people or dogs.
That would put everyone at risk in a group setting, their policy on DA or HA in private class is "not allowed, it would put other Pet Parents at risk" in the store.
It does not say bully breeds, it doesn't distinguish between others, (if you have an aggressive Aussie, or chi, it's not suppose to be allowed in class), unless you have some city/county ban or BSL in there, that's suppose to be their policy.
At the entrance to the store it says "all vaccinated and leashed pets are Welcome" so you will sometimes find da or ha dogs in the store.
Oh, they may not allow Apbt in doggie camp due to da tendencies, which is what everyone here says they shouldn't be at dog parks either due to that, so I think Petsmart is trying to be responsible in that essence. Doggy day camp is "off leash" play.

[zada]

Originally Posted by Drgnrdr Petsmart's policy on who is allowed in group class: They do not allow dogs that are aggressive to unfamiliar people or dogs. That would put everyone at risk in a group setting, their policy on DA or HA in private class is "not allowed, it would put other Pet Parents at risk" in the store. It does not say bully breeds, it doesn't distinguish between others, (if you have an aggressive Aussie, or chi, it's not suppose to be allowed in class), unless you have some city/county ban or BSL in there, that's suppose to be their policy. At the entrance to the store it says "all vaccinated and leashed pets are Welcome" so you will sometimes find da or ha dogs in the store. Oh, they may not allow Apbt in doggie camp due to da tendencies, which is what everyone here says they shouldn't be at dog parks either due to that, so I think Petsmart is trying to be responsible in that essence. Doggy day camp is "off leash" play.

this came directly off the petsmart website for the doggie day camp requirements...it also says "mixed breeds with the appearence or characteristics of these breeds"...so. yeah. point proven?

***

Requirements
Who may attend?

• Dogs at least five months of age
• Dogs who have been socialized with
  other dogs but are not of the “bully
  breed” classification† or wolves/wolf
  hybrids
• Dogs who are in good health (no fleas, ticks, or contagious illnesses)
• No intact (unneutered) male dogs, pregnant females or females in heat
• Dogs who have the following vaccinations: Bordetella, Rabies, Distemper, Parainfluenza and Parvovirus

†Dogs in the "bully breed" classification (e.g. American Pit Bull Terriers, Miniature Bull Terriers, American Staffordshire Terriers, Staffordshire Bull Terriers, American Bull Dogs, Bull Terriers or mixed breeds that have the appearance or characteristics of one of these breeds). For the safety of all animals and associates, and at the discretion of PetSmart, some pets may not be permitted.
For the health and safety of our guests, all dogs must be current on their vaccinations prior to participating in day camp. Vaccinations must be given at least 48 hours before arrival by a licensed veterinarian. Written proof of the following are required for all guests. We do not accept home vaccinations.
We prefer vaccinations to be administered 7 days prior to check-in.
Dog Vaccinations:
DPP* One or three year vaccine requiredBordetdella Required every six months. Please note, many veterinarians administer this vaccine only by request.Rabies One or three year** vaccine required
*Distemper, Parvovirus and Parainfluenza
**Rabies per local ordinance
If Doggie Day Camp doesn’t seem like a good fit for your dog, we also offer Day Care at our PetSmart PetsHotel locations. Click here to learn more.

***

[Drgnrdr]

i would make sure petsmart allows bully breeds in the class

sorry I should have done this before I replied, I was addressing this statement...
and I had an add on about day camp, that's why I said in essence they are trying to be responsible..unless the associates running the doggy day camp know what they are doing, which I know alot of trainers don't have indepth animal behavior training...

[zada]

Fair Enough

[Drgnrdr]

Fair Enough