[Lassic]

Anyone reading this please don't take offense to this post this is not something i have written. I do feel that some of the dogs in that line are a Lil to big/short and don't fit the standrad but to each his own, Go all the way down to the bottom of the post the Info is there on what there trying to do. What are your thought on this?



http://www.thepetitionsite.com/takeaction/132176281

[Galadriel]

I hear the original breeder is already working on a new registry for RE dogs, since they're out crossed. Bottom line...an APBT crossed with a mastiff, or a bulldog, or whatever, is not an APBT and should not be allowed to be registered as such. I have no problems with the dogs as a whole, but people need to call them and register them for what they ARE: American Bullies.

[Dakota Spirit]

Originally Posted by Galadriel I hear the original breeder is already working on a new registry for RE dogs, since they're out crossed. Bottom line...an APBT crossed with a mastiff, or a bulldog, or whatever, is not an APBT and should not be allowed to be registered as such. I have no problems with the dogs as a whole, but people need to call them and register them for what they ARE: American Bullies.

:thumbsup:

[Lassic]

What will happen to the people that already have there RE dogs reg with the ukc and adba will they automatically get re reg as a American bully? or will the newer pups that are just being born be reg as American bully's?

[Galadriel]

I have no idea. I' d imagine they'll drop the registration. All of this came to light as we were getting ready to send Hera's stuff in. She's York with a dash of RE. I decided not to register her. Why pay $50 to get her UKC pedigree when she may be dropped in a few months? And you KNOW they won't refund all those people who registered their bullies.
I really believe 90% of the people who have their RE dogs registered have no idea they aren't really APBT's. Hell, I didn't know until fairly recently that the line was mixed. Is that the reason for her panic attacks every time a stranger gets near her? Can't say. Has the thought crossed my mind? You bet! If I'd known 3 months ago that RE was an out crossed line, I probably would have passed on her. I didn't necessarily want a game dog, but I DID want an APBT, and that's not what I got.
I signed the petition, by the way.

[maryellen]

the original RE was more of the gamey type style.. nice looking dogs too. . the newer breed is more bullyish... leaning toward less DA is what he is trying to do.. he created a new registry strictly for the american bullies .

[Lassic]

Originally Posted by Galadriel I have no idea. I' d imagine they'll drop the registration. All of this came to light as we were getting ready to send Hera's stuff in. She's York with a dash of RE. I decided not to register her. Why pay $50 to get her UKC pedigree when she may be dropped in a few months? And you KNOW they won't refund all those people who registered their bullies. I really believe 90% of the people who have their RE dogs registered have no idea they aren't really APBT's. Hell, I didn't know until fairly recently that the line was mixed. Is that the reason for her panic attacks every time a stranger gets near her? Can't say. Has the thought crossed my mind? You bet! If I'd known 3 months ago that RE was an out crossed line, I probably would have passed on her. I didn't necessarily want a game dog, but I DID want an APBT, and that's not what I got. I signed the petition, by the way.

Do u have any pics of her?

[Galadriel]

There are a few posted in the gallery , mostly under kids with pits.
She's a beautiful pup and we love her dearly. She's a little thick, but not new school hippo RE. If you've seen BoogieMan's Nick, she's growing up to be nearly identical to him. We were actually prepared to take her back to the breeder next weekend because of the severe fear issues she's developed, but have decided to continue to see what we can do to balance her. We had quite the uproar with the breeder today and discovered she's not the good person I thought she was. NO WAY she's getting my dog back.
Anyone know a good behaviorist in ATL? Proving to be VERY difficult to find!

[Vanella]

Originally Posted by maryellen the original RE was more of the gamey type style.. nice looking dogs too. . the newer breed is more bullyish... leaning toward less DA is what he is trying to do.. he created a new registry strictly for the american bullies .

RE's are still being registered under APBT's....He already got the new registry for the "American Bullies" which he and many of the breeders in the Elite Edge have been breeding for for awhile now....I don't want to make any inflammatory statements, I'll just say that I for one am GLAD that they got a whole new registry for "American Bullies" ....they are in no way, shape or form APBT's......they come with MANY health issues including but not limited to upper respitory, bad bone structure causing some serious defects, on and on.....Yeah, they aren't dog aggressive....they don't have the stamina to run across the yard and tangle with anything stronger than a piece of string.

So it was my understanding that he will still breed the gamier APBT and as a SEPARATE breed, breed the American Bullies....It shouldn't effect anyones registry at all.....

[Galadriel]

"Yeah, they aren't dog aggressive....they don't have the stamina to run across the yard and tangle with anything stronger than a piece of string."

LMAO! I haven't laughed that hard all day. Thanks for that!

[Alan]

Many Years ago I was at an ADBA show in Indiana. Edger Edington brought in a huge dog he passed of as a registered Pit Bull which he used as a weight pull dog. People were irate and every single person there said it was a mastif cross. Now days there are several versions of not only Pit Bulls, but Bulldogs in general. If it isnt the same as the foundation stock then it shouldnt be registered as such.

People have a tendency to think bigger is better. No ofence intended; but, it isnt always the case. The same goes for the phrase "You get what you pay for.". That used to be the case but now days sometimes cheaper is better quality than expensive.

I dont think we need any more breeds of any kind because of the pet population crisis. However, some good has come from all this. That line has become popular. From what I have seen, I dont think those dogs have been any more respsponsible for dog bites than any other strain of Pit Bull. However, do to the popularity of that line, we have more people fighting BSL than we would have had otherwise.

[Lassic]

Originally Posted by Alan Many Years ago I was at an ADBA show in Indiana. Edger Edington brought in a huge dog he passed of as a registered Pit Bull which he used as a weight pull dog. People were irate and every single person there said it was a mastif cross. Now days there are several versions of not only Pit Bulls, but Bulldogs in general. If it isnt the same as the foundation stock then it shouldnt be registered as such. People have a tendency to think bigger is better. No ofence intended; but, it isnt always the case. The same goes for the phrase "You get what you pay for.". That used to be the case but now days sometimes cheaper is better quality than expensive. I dont think we need any more breeds of any kind because of the pet population crisis. However, some good has come from all this. That line has become popular. From what I have seen, I dont think those dogs have been any more respsponsible for dog bites than any other strain of Pit Bull. However, do to the popularity of that line, we have more people fighting BSL than we would have had otherwise.

What you said in the last sentence is true there are a lot of RA owners and there also great owners i no alot of them and most of the dogs look great and are very friendly.

[tat2stuff]

In the words of Dave Wilson,

"Razors Edge was started in MD and DC long before there was ever a Knuckles. My friend Carlos Barksdale and I started it with game dogs. We researched everything we could find. We read every book publicized at that time. Subscribed to many dog magazines like the ADBA Gazette, even some underground ones. We called damn near every breeder that we could find and questioned them. If it said Pit, we were on it. We all had already owned some unpapered BYB Pits. We even had our own Pit club and went hiking and other things back in the woods. Eventually we got enough money to get some real papered, good bloodline, game dogs. We purchased some of the best around at the time. Even paid $3500 way back then for a Grandson of the great "Plumbers Alligator", mainly Mayfield lines. We were very heavy into the game lines. I had dogs from Hemphill/Wilder blood. These were big game dogs.
Later on I hooked up with George Williams in DC and we purchased a dog we named Diablo, from Wildside Kennels. Diablo's dad was a bigger catch dog, "Hollinsworth Bull". His mom was a game girl names "Wildsides Ms.Leaky". This was the turn around time when Razors Edge started adding more size.
The first ever registered "ADBA" Razors Edge breeding was from my Mayfield boy Zeus to a Mayfield girl name Jinx. Jinx was actually given to friend back then named Curt Plater. Now CLP Kennels. He owned the first ever Razors Edge dog. We would lose contact after this for many years before hooking up again.
I had another pure Colby male named Dante that was placed in DC with my man Dave Conrad. Dante went on and shook up DC, but that was the old days.
They banned Pits in PG County and I was forced to move. Eventually through my job in the Pet Store industry I landed a mangers job at a Pet Store in Va. Virginia was the spot for pet lovers! I managed a Pet Store, worked as a professional dog trainer, and still bred bigger ADBA game dogs. Basically, I bred my own now. I also put fliers n the Washington Post explaining what the breed was and what Razors Edge was. I had to move to Va.
I hooked up with Jeannie Howe who became a co-owner of Razors Edge.
I met a guy name Ron Smith who came aboard and took it to another level.
I saw this blue dog named "Steel Town Blue Monday"! I was hooked! Ron already knew every UKC and AKC breeder under the son. He had been researching on his own for years. So this man had all the pictures, info, etc…. He had fliers and pictures from every AKC and UKC breeder from Coast to coast. He literally had pictures of almost all the dogs in all these pedigrees. That man really is the "Pit Guru".
We first contact Cock 'n' Bull Kennels, the ones that produced Monday. They turned us onto people in Cali with that blood. Candace Eggart was one. Candy sent us pictures of what she had and what she had going on. Just to give you a time frame. She sold a dog years later to Tony Moore named Showtime! Showtime went on to be one of the foundation bitches in the Greyline! So this was years before Greyline was even around.

We went to every breeder on the East Coast. Up north to Bobby Morehouse, Beth Jones, My man Lee Fitzgerald, Flying A's, Minot's Ledge, etc…… We actually purchased a blue brindle female named "Sadey" from Minot's Ledge. This litter was had an extraordinary pedigree. The top half were mainly Flying A's dogs like "Oreo" and "Reo Speedwagon". Dogs I had seen and liked. You could see in the extended pedigree how these dogs stemmed from Ruffian dogs. Then you could see how it went back even further from the AKC Ruffian dog to the UKC Colby dogs. This top half of the pedigree actually showed how Pits eventually were registered as Staffs! I thought that was cool to see on paper and in a dog I owned. Then the bottom half of the ped went right back to Stratton dogs. Dogs like Going light Barney, dogs I grew up reading about! Thanks to Richard Stratton, LOL! Then behind them were the same Colby dogs I saw on the top half of the pedigree. So I had this dog that showed the history of the Am.Staff and the directions the Colby line went in the UKC. We also purchased a male named "Razors Edge Blue Maxx". His top half was a dog named "StoryTime's Upon this Rock" AKA "Peter" Peter was a dog bred by Beth Jones. He was a big ass dog, but kinda ugly. They bred him to "Wassuc's Farm Maggie May". I really liked this compact girl. We researched her lines and found she was Ryan. When we got to see the Ryan dogs we were surprised to see they were game dogs. They were AKC registered Staffs, but they still bred for game dogs! This was something I had never seen, I'm sure that's why the AKC people didn't like that line. However; I loved it! Bully, game, blue, staffs! Now that's what I am talking about! LOL Maxx was our boy from this blood. Now Razors Edge was big ADBA game dogs, one UKC Blue Brindle girl, and a Big hot Blue Fawn AKC boy.

In Va there was Sharon Stone of Cloverhill, who had the biggest Staffs I had ever seen! Her old stuff was huge! Too tall for what I was looking for, but huge! They changed years later and went more showy. Paco, was in my opinion actually a throw back of her older days. Ginny York, Pam Perdue, GiGi, The Garretts, etc….We visited them all. Even went down to Florida and checked out Marsha Woods. Met KC Courtier of Watchdog Kennels. Eventually, we went up to Md and met Kimmar Kennels. As soon as I stepped on the ranch, I knew I had found the build I was looking for! The Razors Edge package was almost complete.
We also had been advertising in the Washington Post for many years. Some young Kats from DC used to come down and hang out and bring their dogs. Edwin Salinas and Joey Nevils were two of them. These guys had been buying dogs from Kimmar and mixing their own stuff in them too. Kimmar used to have an add in the post under the Pit Bull adds, it said "Petey pups". They didn't want their dogs to be labeled as Pits; but they advertised directly under Pits? Hmmmmmm? Not as Staff? Anyway, local Kats knew the deal and picked up a lot of her dogs. Joey, Edwin, Joey's pop, and their boys had a bunch of these dogs. Even some old friends of mine Jerry and Gerrold had yards with these dogs. We all also had game stuff in the mix. I tapped into a lot of their dogs as well.
In Kimmar's yard I learned a lot about breeding and genetics. I spent every weekend there for almost three years. I actually put on a training class for all her buyers every Sunday.
Razors Edge had been breeding now for a few generations. We even used a lot of her dogs from other people in the mix. Ron, also had some York dogs, and some other AKC stuff, we experimented with. Before we got Knuckles or any of them, Razors Edge was already in the game. Kimmar actually used our dog Maxx for some breedings. Eventually we purchased around 15 dogs from her line, including Knuckles and Rage. While these pups were growing, Razors Edge already had it's formula. We just wanted a different head. We also were not given papers on some of these dogs and they had to be UKC registered instead! This is where Razors Edge became heavily involved in UKC.
Ron made a sharp turn and went back into the game dogs. He jumped heavy into the RedBoy line and vanished?
I started searching for a better head and came into some Watchdog stuff. KC was not breeding anymore, so I had to find that blood somewhere else. I bought dogs from Grapevine Kennels. I hit up Hughzee's, who I believe later on became Chaos Kennels. We had been talking to Pam from Gaff Kennels for a few years, and really liked a boy name Seiko! So we got a dog from her. We experimented with a lot of lines and different dogs. Razors Edge started having a real consistent look. The heads were big, but we still wanted the to be a little more blocky. A few generations later it was pretty much there.

The reason for posting this is because we have been asked how this line began. Also to show that it goes way beyond the dogs you see today. It wasn't just as easy as breeding two dogs and waiting a couple of generations and calling it a line. This was creation from research, and as you can see, many years and lines went into it. This is just the backbone info too. Razors Edge had many ears to follow before the line was complete.

Razors Edge Maxx had kids featured on the cover of DogWorld at this time. So the name was out, and Knuckles was still a pup!

Then one day a man called from an advertisement we placed in The Washington Post. He came by with this little blocky head blue puppy male he called Mr.Brooks. There it was, the final ingredient. By the way, this was 1992 ish. Gary and I collaborated on many breedings from that point on. We both started showing our dogs and doing quite well in the ring. By 1994 Razors Edge had it's final look and was consistently producing it. Thanks to all these lines and people involved. A lot happened from that point on…..but that's an even longer story. A lot of people claim to know these dogs and this line; but this is before they got into the dogs.

Dogs like ShortShot were made almost 4 years later and remained in Razors Edge yard until around 1999. Then we were reunited with an old friend Curt, and he was placed with him. He had the first RE dog ever made and he got one of the best RE dogs created!

I use him for an example, to explain how these dogs went into other yards and onto other lines and kennels. Razors Edge dogs were always placed amongst friends. That was the point of the line, to share with everyone. A lot of the guys came around years later and also got into this line. No this isn't against True Tank, like it may be perceived. I don't have any problem with that. What I have a problem with is people discrediting the line and saying it's just this and this. Without giving credit to all the years it took to make it. Now the way I see TT posting these days is very respectful. There is an understanding, they use this line as their foundation. Maybe things haven't gone smooth, but now it has gone in a better direction. Respect for that. Respect for using this line."

here's Shortshots ped, Knuckles in second generation back, you can go back and see what kind of dogs went into the foundation of his line

http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com...?dog_id=231233

here's their new registry

http://www.abkcdogs.org/index.asp?i=42

[Alyssa]

From what I understand,RE finally admitted to adding in mastiffs and falsely registering the results as a pure-bred APBT to get the resulting huge dogs it currently puts forth.

That's why folks are riled, as I understand it, he denied it for years and then finally copped to doing it publicly.

I had someone post on Toby's Flickr that if I wanted to see a GOOD example of a pit bull thatI should look at Gotti's line. I had to reply that in my opinion they are far too ungainly and large to be considered a good example of the APBT breed.

Heck, Toby's going to be large enough to be pushing that line himself - though I keep hoping he prove everyone wrong and stay under 60 pounds. LOL.

[maryellen]

American bully, what breed is it? its own? a subdivision of the apbt?

AGAIN KEEP IT CIVIL, NO PROFANITY.

[maryellen]

In the words of Dave Wilson,

"Razors Edge was started in MD and DC long before there was ever a Knuckles. My friend Carlos Barksdale and I started it with game dogs. We researched everything we could find. We read every book publicized at that time. Subscribed to many dog magazines like the ADBA Gazette, even some underground ones. We called damn near every breeder that we could find and questioned them. If it said Pit, we were on it. We all had already owned some unpapered BYB Pits. We even had our own Pit club and went hiking and other things back in the woods. Eventually we got enough money to get some real papered, good bloodline, game dogs. We purchased some of the best around at the time. Even paid $3500 way back then for a Grandson of the great "Plumbers Alligator", mainly Mayfield lines. We were very heavy into the game lines. I had dogs from Hemphill/Wilder blood. These were big game dogs.
Later on I hooked up with George Williams in DC and we purchased a dog we named Diablo, from Wildside Kennels. Diablo's dad was a bigger catch dog, "Hollinsworth Bull". His mom was a game girl names "Wildsides Ms.Leaky". This was the turn around time when Razors Edge started adding more size.
The first ever registered "ADBA" Razors Edge breeding was from my Mayfield boy Zeus to a Mayfield girl name Jinx. Jinx was actually given to friend back then named Curt Plater. Now CLP Kennels. He owned the first ever Razors Edge dog. We would lose contact after this for many years before hooking up again.
I had another pure Colby male named Dante that was placed in DC with my man Dave Conrad. Dante went on and shook up DC, but that was the old days.
They banned Pits in PG County and I was forced to move. Eventually through my job in the Pet Store industry I landed a mangers job at a Pet Store in Va. Virginia was the spot for pet lovers! I managed a Pet Store, worked as a professional dog trainer, and still bred bigger ADBA game dogs. Basically, I bred my own now. I also put fliers n the Washington Post explaining what the breed was and what Razors Edge was. I had to move to Va.
I hooked up with Jeannie Howe who became a co-owner of Razors Edge.
I met a guy name Ron Smith who came aboard and took it to another level.
I saw this blue dog named "Steel Town Blue Monday"! I was hooked! Ron already knew every UKC and AKC breeder under the son. He had been researching on his own for years. So this man had all the pictures, info, etc…. He had fliers and pictures from every AKC and UKC breeder from Coast to coast. He literally had pictures of almost all the dogs in all these pedigrees. That man really is the "Pit Guru".
We first contact Cock 'n' Bull Kennels, the ones that produced Monday. They turned us onto people in Cali with that blood. Candace Eggart was one. Candy sent us pictures of what she had and what she had going on. Just to give you a time frame. She sold a dog years later to Tony Moore named Showtime! Showtime went on to be one of the foundation bitches in the Greyline! So this was years before Greyline was even around.

We went to every breeder on the East Coast. Up north to Bobby Morehouse, Beth Jones, My man Lee Fitzgerald, Flying A's, Minot's Ledge, etc…… We actually purchased a blue brindle female named "Sadey" from Minot's Ledge. This litter was had an extraordinary pedigree. The top half were mainly Flying A's dogs like "Oreo" and "Reo Speedwagon". Dogs I had seen and liked. You could see in the extended pedigree how these dogs stemmed from Ruffian dogs. Then you could see how it went back even further from the AKC Ruffian dog to the UKC Colby dogs. This top half of the pedigree actually showed how Pits eventually were registered as Staffs! I thought that was cool to see on paper and in a dog I owned. Then the bottom half of the ped went right back to Stratton dogs. Dogs like Going light Barney, dogs I grew up reading about! Thanks to Richard Stratton, LOL! Then behind them were the same Colby dogs I saw on the top half of the pedigree. So I had this dog that showed the history of the Am.Staff and the directions the Colby line went in the UKC. We also purchased a male named "Razors Edge Blue Maxx". His top half was a dog named "StoryTime's Upon this Rock" AKA "Peter" Peter was a dog bred by Beth Jones. He was a big ass dog, but kinda ugly. They bred him to "Wassuc's Farm Maggie May". I really liked this compact girl. We researched her lines and found she was Ryan. When we got to see the Ryan dogs we were surprised to see they were game dogs. They were AKC registered Staffs, but they still bred for game dogs! This was something I had never seen, I'm sure that's why the AKC people didn't like that line. However; I loved it! Bully, game, blue, staffs! Now that's what I am talking about! LOL Maxx was our boy from this blood. Now Razors Edge was big ADBA game dogs, one UKC Blue Brindle girl, and a Big hot Blue Fawn AKC boy.

In Va there was Sharon Stone of Cloverhill, who had the biggest Staffs I had ever seen! Her old stuff was huge! Too tall for what I was looking for, but huge! They changed years later and went more showy. Paco, was in my opinion actually a throw back of her older days. Ginny York, Pam Perdue, GiGi, The Garretts, etc….We visited them all. Even went down to Florida and checked out Marsha Woods. Met KC Courtier of Watchdog Kennels. Eventually, we went up to Md and met Kimmar Kennels. As soon as I stepped on the ranch, I knew I had found the build I was looking for! The Razors Edge package was almost complete.
We also had been advertising in the Washington Post for many years. Some young Kats from DC used to come down and hang out and bring their dogs. Edwin Salinas and Joey Nevils were two of them. These guys had been buying dogs from Kimmar and mixing their own stuff in them too. Kimmar used to have an add in the post under the Pit Bull adds, it said "Petey pups". They didn't want their dogs to be labeled as Pits; but they advertised directly under Pits? Hmmmmmm? Not as Staff? Anyway, local Kats knew the deal and picked up a lot of her dogs. Joey, Edwin, Joey's pop, and their boys had a bunch of these dogs. Even some old friends of mine Jerry and Gerrold had yards with these dogs. We all also had game stuff in the mix. I tapped into a lot of their dogs as well.
In Kimmar's yard I learned a lot about breeding and genetics. I spent every weekend there for almost three years. I actually put on a training class for all her buyers every Sunday.
Razors Edge had been breeding now for a few generations. We even used a lot of her dogs from other people in the mix. Ron, also had some York dogs, and some other AKC stuff, we experimented with. Before we got Knuckles or any of them, Razors Edge was already in the game. Kimmar actually used our dog Maxx for some breedings. Eventually we purchased around 15 dogs from her line, including Knuckles and Rage. While these pups were growing, Razors Edge already had it's formula. We just wanted a different head. We also were not given papers on some of these dogs and they had to be UKC registered instead! This is where Razors Edge became heavily involved in UKC.
Ron made a sharp turn and went back into the game dogs. He jumped heavy into the RedBoy line and vanished?
I started searching for a better head and came into some Watchdog stuff. KC was not breeding anymore, so I had to find that blood somewhere else. I bought dogs from Grapevine Kennels. I hit up Hughzee's, who I believe later on became Chaos Kennels. We had been talking to Pam from Gaff Kennels for a few years, and really liked a boy name Seiko! So we got a dog from her. We experimented with a lot of lines and different dogs. Razors Edge started having a real consistent look. The heads were big, but we still wanted the to be a little more blocky. A few generations later it was pretty much there.

The reason for posting this is because we have been asked how this line began. Also to show that it goes way beyond the dogs you see today. It wasn't just as easy as breeding two dogs and waiting a couple of generations and calling it a line. This was creation from research, and as you can see, many years and lines went into it. This is just the backbone info too. Razors Edge had many ears to follow before the line was complete.

Razors Edge Maxx had kids featured on the cover of DogWorld at this time. So the name was out, and Knuckles was still a pup!

Then one day a man called from an advertisement we placed in The Washington Post. He came by with this little blocky head blue puppy male he called Mr.Brooks. There it was, the final ingredient. By the way, this was 1992 ish. Gary and I collaborated on many breedings from that point on. We both started showing our dogs and doing quite well in the ring. By 1994 Razors Edge had it's final look and was consistently producing it. Thanks to all these lines and people involved. A lot happened from that point on…..but that's an even longer story. A lot of people claim to know these dogs and this line; but this is before they got into the dogs.

Dogs like ShortShot were made almost 4 years later and remained in Razors Edge yard until around 1999. Then we were reunited with an old friend Curt, and he was placed with him. He had the first RE dog ever made and he got one of the best RE dogs created!

I use him for an example, to explain how these dogs went into other yards and onto other lines and kennels. Razors Edge dogs were always placed amongst friends. That was the point of the line, to share with everyone. A lot of the guys came around years later and also got into this line. No this isn't against True Tank, like it may be perceived. I don't have any problem with that. What I have a problem with is people discrediting the line and saying it's just this and this. Without giving credit to all the years it took to make it. Now the way I see TT posting these days is very respectful. There is an understanding, they use this line as their foundation. Maybe things haven't gone smooth, but now it has gone in a better direction. Respect for that. Respect for using this line."

here's Shortshots ped, Knuckles in second generation back, you can go back and see what kind of dogs went into the foundation of his line

http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com...?dog_id=231233

here's their new registry

http://www.abkcdogs.org/index.asp?i=42

[screamin'eagle]

Here is what the American Bully Kennel Club says above their breed...
http://www.abkcdogs.org/index.asp?i=74

They admit to having ancestors that are APBT and Amstaffs, but clearly make a distinction between those two and the American Bully, but they also recognize the American Bandogge and something called a short bull

http://www.abkcdogs.org/index.asp?i=79
http://www.abkcdogs.org/index.asp?i=76

I add that to demonstrate the influence of other breeds than the one they admitted in their breed standard.

[jennay2]

Assuming this is going to be a debate,

I believe the American Bully is not a breed in itself, but is not pit bull in any form. Most, not all, but most American Bullies are unable to do quality sports, such as weight pull or agility, due to their size, poor breeding, etc. Very few people breed their "American Bullies" as such, and usually call them "Pit Bulls", because bigger is better, right?

They were technically created from pit bulls, with most likely mastiff breeding along the lines, with no real new breed end goal, just bigger is better. I believe a new breed shouldn't be created without a purpose, and for the American Bully, there doesn't seem to be a real purpose in mind, just...large porportions(sp?). So, while it is wise to try to seperate the "American Bullies" from the true APBT, since it seems like they are bred more unstable, I just don't see the purpose, period, in the type of dog it is.

Some may like the way it looks, but really...what can the dog do in the long haul? Endurance is rarely an attribute associated with the American Bully, so Sch, agility, weight pull...is normally out of the question. I've even heard of just walking a mile is hard on the dog, which has too much mass for it's body sometimes.

So I suppose, like the Maltese or Yorkie, which were created to be lap dogs, the American Bully can be your couch potato or floor mat, and I suppose there is nothing wrong with that, if that's what you REALLY want, but besides body resemblances (sp?), it really isn't a bulldog. Therefore, it shouldn't have bully in it period.

I hope I made sense, and didn't offend. If the Am. Bly is your type, more power to you!

[screamin'eagle]

Originally Posted by jennay2 Assuming this is going to be a debate, I believe the American Bully is not a breed in itself, but is not pit bull in any form. Most, not all, but most American Bullies are unable to do quality sports, such as weight pull or agility, due to their size, poor breeding, etc. Very few people breed their "American Bullies" as such, and usually call them "Pit Bulls", because bigger is better, right? They were technically created from pit bulls, with most likely mastiff breeding along the lines, with no real new breed end goal, just bigger is better. I believe a new breed shouldn't be created without a purpose, and for the American Bully, there doesn't seem to be a real purpose in mind, just...large porportions(sp?). So, while it is wise to try to seperate the "American Bullies" from the true APBT, since it seems like they are bred more unstable, I just don't see the purpose, period, in the type of dog it is. Some may like the way it looks, but really...what can the dog do in the long haul? Endurance is rarely an attribute associated with the American Bully, so Sch, agility, weight pull...is normally out of the question. I've even heard of just walking a mile is hard on the dog, which has too much mass for it's body sometimes. So I suppose, like the Maltese or Yorkie, which were created to be lap dogs, the American Bully can be your couch potato or floor mat, and I suppose there is nothing wrong with that, if that's what you REALLY want, but besides body resemblances (sp?), it really isn't a bulldog. Therefore, it shouldn't have bully in it period. I hope I made sense, and didn't offend. If the Am. Bly is your type, more power to you!

I am not offended, and I mostly agree. I will say that the American Bully was created for a purpose...just not with performance as a purpose. Most bullies that I have seen have been even temperment, and not more himan aggressive than the avg APBT. The purpose that the Bully was made for was as a leash ornament, and later for the all mighty dollar. Once someone realized that they could sell pups for $2500 plus...this became the real issue. It is wise for us, and their owners to make a breed distinction, and go foward from there. I attribute them more as a designer breed than new purebreed, but thats a matter of opinion.

[Michele]

American Bully:

http://www.abkcdogs.org/index.asp?i=74