[maryellen]

OK FOLKS, HERE IT IS.. THE AMERICAN PIT BULL TERRIER VS THE AMERICAN STAFFORDSHIRE TERRIER.. KEEP IT NICE, CLEAN, AND NO VULGARITY..

the apbt and the amstaff are 2 different distinct dogs...

[screamin'eagle]

IMO nearly 70 years of breeding for show vs performance (for the most part, but not exclusively on either side!) have really created two distinct breeds.

[buddysmom]

The only purebred AmStaffs i have met in person have been snarling little beasts, but that is far from a representative sample ... three of them to be exact. I would like to meet a nice one someday ... I know they exist ... there just aren't many of this breed around here.

[screamin'eagle]

Now American Pitbull Terriers and American Staffordshire Terriers can be reg'd as either breed depending on the registry, but the selective purpose is more telling than a registrys papers. This is not to say that all of either breed conform to the above statement, but as a general statement. In the past the AKC's books were open to the APBT, but they wanted to seperate themselves from the dog fighting persona. For that reason they changed the name. Now 60 or 70 years later we have selective bred two different breeds as a result.

[maryellen]

correct, the apbt and amstaff can be dual registered with UKC, but not with the AKC, AKC only accepts american staffordshires..

amstaffs are somewhat thicker body wise then the apbt, as the show end likes them a little thick. DA is watered down somewhat, depending on bloodlines, some Amstaffs can be just as DA as gamey apbts...

[Michele]

American Stafford Terrier:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/America...dshire_Terrier

American Pit Bull Terrier:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Pit_Bull_Terrier

[screamin'eagle]

Originally Posted by maryellen correct, the apbt and amstaff can be dual registered with UKC, but not with the AKC, AKC only accepts american staffordshires.. amstaffs are somewhat thicker body wise then the apbt, as the show end likes them a little thick. DA is watered down somewhat, depending on bloodlines, some Amstaffs can be just as DA as gamey apbts...

This is just for clarities sake, but a given dog can be an Amstaff for the AKC, as long as he was reg'd there first...he can then be reg'd by the UKC or ABDA as an American Pitbull Terrier. This is what I was trying to illustrate.

[bahamutt99]

Here's my opinion on this:

There are some APBTs and AmStaffs that are decidedly the same dogs, and some who are decidedly different. I've seen some AmStaffs bred to a sensible standard who could have passed for good-quality APBTs. They may not look like Nigerino, or any other gamebred APBT, but they are still pretty dang good. I've seen some APBTs that could pass for good AmStaffs as well. And then I've seen dogs that were clearly one or the other, not in the middle.

I do not think your typical ADBA show winner is the same dog as your typical AKC show winner, although there have been some exceptional dogs who have cross-champed. I do see a greater similarity between the UKC and AKC dogs, but again, even here there is such a range that I would be doing a disservice to the argument to speak in absolutes. I think all of these types, except for those who have been poorly bred to be cartoon versions of the breed, are worthy specimens.

Now, as for my perspective on whether or not they should remain able to be registered as the same breed, I don't see what harm would come from making the split complete. The AKC distanced themselves from the APBT a long time ago, but the APBT registries will still allow you to register an AmStaff as an APBT. I am not in favor of kicking the AmStaff out of the other registries, but I think they should be shown in their own breed class. That way we will have APBTs competing with APBTs and AmStaffs with AmStaffs. We wont have judges judging a group of UKC dogs to the AKC standard. It will be a fairer deal, IMO, with less hard feelings. But of course, I don't expect it to happen anytime soon.

[zada]

this may sound a little stupid...but me being a first time PUPPY owner of the breed, and my pup has no papers or anything...how would i tell the difference. from what the links have said they are the same dog but SLIGHT appearance differences and SLIGHT temperment differences. would i say i have an APBT or an AM STAFF?

[Purple]

Here's a nice site to see the evolution of the APBT to the AmStaff.

http://www.lamasko.com/x-pert/History.html

[zada]

cool thanks

[Shes Got Heart]

I think that Amstaffs and APBT are both fine and beautiful dogs. When I first got into the breed I liked more of the thicker, square look. But after seeing lots of great athletic APBT my mind was changed a bit. I love the look of a great game-bred dog... and dogs that were made to look like them. But I still like to look of a show bred dog as well. I think I am starting to lean more towards the athletic look though.

[Rai_77]

Always been my understanding that

APBT = performance
AST = conformation

with some dogs being able to win in both areas.

In the end, if someone gets bit, they are all the same dog anyway. Heck, when someone gets bit, a chihuahua becomes a pit!

[CoolHandJean]

they are different breeds in my eyes...
Notch is an Amstaff...Tess is an APBT...You can see the different...
Notch is a super lovable dog, as is Tess, but that is for the person above who hasn't met a nice one. She'll have to meet Notch.

[TheVictor22]

Ok this may be a stupid question. But were does the Irish Stafordshire terrier fall into place. This confuses me quite a bit. Are they more like the APBT or the AST or the ST.

[screamin'eagle]

Originally Posted by TheVictor22 Ok this may be a stupid question. But were does the Irish Stafordshire terrier fall into place. This confuses me quite a bit. Are they more like the APBT or the AST or the ST.

The American Pitbull Terrier has been outlawed in England. So what fanciers over there did was take the same dog, and change his name to the "Irish Staffordshire Terrier." Think pure APBT and ABPT/SBT crosses and changing the name. The three breeds listed have common ancestors, and an intertwined history.

[TheVictor22]

Originally Posted by screamin'eagle The American Pitbull Terrier has been outlawed in England. So what fanciers over there did was take the same dog, and change his name to the "Irish Staffordshire Terrier." Think pure APBT and ABPT/SBT crosses and changing the name. The three breeds listed have common ancestors, and an intertwined history.

Wow I love this forum!I'm on here every day and I learn so much. thank you!

[Violet]

I think it is really hard to answer this because it really depends on the bloodlines and purposes behind the breedings. I have a friend who has a georgous, big headed APBT that cannot be registered as an Am Staff and yet he looks more Am Staff than my Cowgirl, who is dual registered. (for the record..he was not bred to be a big headed dog lol he is kind of an anomoly in his line) Happily the big brute has done well both in conformation AND performance.

[RedThunder]

Here is my opinion. I say they are "cousins".

I think they started out as two totally different bloodlines. One bloodline was made for fighting (in the 'pit', which originated in Ireland) and one was made for 'show'(am staff).

If you trace back the bloodlines. There are some am staff lines in some of the apbt lines, but not all. This is why, I think the APBT has different shapes, sizes, weight, where as the American Stafforshire Terrier (Staffordshire, a place in England) is more consistant, for the show.

[annji]

My am staff is a full figured girl. At 65 lbs she definatley represents the show dog standard. She is a lover has abosolutely no DA. However, her mom is only 50 lbs and on looks alone would pass for a perfect APBT anyday. Her mom is also what you would consider game and is used in hunting hogs. She is dual registered, AKC as an am staff and UKC as a pit bull. My dog gets her size from her dad. He is about 90 lbs and is simply a big lover. He is registered AKC.

That being said, I believe there is a difference in the two breeds, but occasionally the two intertwine. When researching the breeds on the internet it was hard for me to tell the difference. I saw ABPT's that were thin and muscular, and ones that were short and wide. Since joining this site I have a much better understanding of what the true breed standard is, and I don't think it's one of those short stocky guys. IMO overall there is a difference, but breeding definately has a factor here.