[Alan]

I got my first Pit Bull in 1981. A lot has changed since then with the breed, the owner and training philosophies. Back then (and I still here it from a few old timers today) dog owers would say "If your dog ever growls at you and especialy bites you, smack him upside the head and let him know who is bose. If you do, he will more than likely never do it again, if you don't he will push you even further and you could possibly be injured as a result." I've known quite a few people to practice this in the past and claim to have good results.

Now days, people are into positive reinforcement and say such behaviour is cruel. It's almost the same philosophy you hear with children. Some people think you should never spank and some think that you will have problem children if you dont. The key is to know the difference between punishment and abuse.

When I was growing up, kids (myself included) got the belt, switches (which were tree branches) paddles, yard sticks and even a good backhand across the mouth if necessary. Now days that is considered abuse. I dont feel as though I was ever abused. I think it made me a good person.

Sorry, I know this is about dogs but I was just trying to show how the philosophies in correcting children and animals ran parallel both then and now.

So what do you think?

[Michele]

I don't believe in hitting a child or an animal. Ever...

[Alan]

Originally Posted by Michele I don't believe in hitting a child or an animal. Ever...

I should thrown in that these people who taught me this philosophy, wouldnt hit a small dog like JC. They always said that Pit Bulls could handle a good backhand.

I must admit that I did it several years ago. I had a female in heat and two male dogs. The male dogs were understandably edgy. One of them ran behind the bed when I tried to get him to go out. I reached around and grabbed him by the color and he bit me. It was just a bruise bite and I'm sure he could have done much worse but he did it in anger. I backhanded him hard and then I offered my hand to him and dared him to bite me again. He never did after that.

Personaly, I think a lot of it depends on the dog or the child. My present dogs (especialy Edge) would never need any kind of physical punishment. To scold him is the worst thing you could ever do to him. He cant stand me being upset with him.

Ive had dogs in the past however that it took at least a rolled up newspaper to get their attention. Anything less than that was a waste of time.

[Michele]

I feel that the tone of your voice when reprimanding is enough. Just like you can read your dog's language, they can certainly sense and read your tone and body language.

[NcPrisonGuard]

Spare the rod spoil the child! I am very pro spanking.. both children and animals. I've told the story about Boomer and I having the come to Jesus meeting over a rib bone when he was about 6 months old, and I beat that dog until I felt bad about it.. beat him like a grown man. Maybe I was wrong for beating him.. but we've not had a situation of him snapping at me or anyone else for that matter. As for children, I got spanked and I needed it..and I'm better for it.

[fearlessknight]

I dont believe in "hitting" a child either...but even DSS and CPS say..."thats what the butt is for" and I dont have a problem with that. As long as it is JUST the butt....now a teen with a smart mouth..yup, nice hand across the mouth will do her/him good IMO....NOT DOGS.....dogs and people are different...they dont belong in the same cat.
I do however belive more so in the fact that if children are raised properly BEFORE they reach the actual spanking age...they should never really need it. That is my goal with this child....smack on the hands up until he figures it out...you know that..."no no, dont touch" thing? Nothing hard, just a mere tap, but it is enough to hurt their feelings if they are raised and treated the right way.
NOw my sisters kids....NOWAY....talking did absolutely no good, the only thing that ever worked with them a wooden spoon....or the wall, they were made to site on the wall as punishment..that was the best thing in the workd too...they feared that more than anything...
When I was groing up, the only the my sisters and I ever feared was mom and dad are going to be disappointed or mad at us.
That was the worst damn punishment in the world. I think I only got the belt once..and He missed, I ran...LMAO! Around the block...he said I would have to come back sooner or later...LMAO..I did, but with an apology!
I would have rather gotten spankings or whoopins..whatever you wanna call them, rather than my mom and dad being upset with me or disappointed in me. That was a horrible, stomach turning feeling.
I plan to raise my child the same way!

As far as the dog part....I have never "hit" a dog...I have rolled newspaper and smack the butt, but that was only a couple of times.....now just seeing the paper is enough!

[NcPrisonGuard]

Originally Posted by fearlessknight I would have rather gotten spankings or whoopins..whatever you wanna call them, rather than my mom and dad being upset with me or disappointed in me. That was a horrible, stomach turning feeling. I plan to raise my child the same way!

Just give me a holler when you need some suggestions on whooping that little booger when he's sassing you Knowing your parents are disappointed is bad.. but when you are out there having to pick your own switch.. that's a whole another feeling..lol and you better pick a good one or you'll get beat with that one, and then you'll have to go pick a proper one.

[fearlessknight]

Originally Posted by NcPrisonGuard Just give me a holler when you need some suggestions on whooping that little booger when he's sassing you Knowing your parents are disappointed is bad.. but when you are out there having to pick your own switch.. that's a whole another feeling..lol and you better pick a good one or you'll get beat with that one, and then you'll have to go pick a proper one.

Oh believe I know...I went through all of that, trust me....with 5 kids I did....but i didnt raise them either...how home when I was a child, was like the Cleavers, and you can all make fun if you want...I dont care, it doesnt bother me.
Cleavers, meaning Leave it to Beaver....
Or even like the Andy Griffith Show.....
When words meant more.....because parents taught differently and spoke differently...
I know how to spank...and I know that if it comes to it, I surely will have no problem....but I will try the traditional method first...
When I was growing up, there is no way in hell you would catch me sassing my parents....why? Because they would be pissed....at me, not because I would get a spanking....morals and cooth are a crazy thing to teach a child!

[Alan]

Originally Posted by NcPrisonGuard when you are out there having to pick your own switch.. that's a whole another feeling..lol and you better pick a good one or you'll get beat with that one, and then you'll have to go pick a proper one.

ROTF I definately remember that. It wasnt so funny then though.

[Purple]

Originally Posted by Alan ROTF I definately remember that. It wasnt so funny then though.

I have memories of the black belt behind the kitchen door, and wooden spoons.

[fearlessknight]

Originally Posted by Purple I have memories of the black belt behind the kitchen door, and wooden spoons.

Ya..those wooden spoons are something else...I had that a couple of times....
Dont to mislead anyone...I got my share of spankings..but not often..other tactics were used.
The inside hurts the worst!

[bahamutt99]

I'll go upside a dog's head, both literally and figuratively speaking, if I feel the infraction is serious enough. Basically, it would have to involve laying teeth in a human, or blatant challenging/resource guarding. But I largely rely on tone of voice, leash correction, sometimes squirt bottle shot to correct the petty stuff.

[Palamino]

How old is your pit Alan? Are you the first owner?

Your bulldog should never be growling at you, let alone biting you. You are the Alpha and bear in mind that bulldogs are DA and not PA. The latter is a very undesirable trait, whilst the former is understandable and to a certain degree controllable.

The problem is when we tend to focus to much atention on what our dogs do wrong as opposed to focusing a lot more attention on what our dogs are doing right. The consequences of inadvertantly teaching a bulldog unwanted behaviour can be serious, especially where aggression to humans is a factor.

A PA dog obtained late in its life should not be an option.

JMO

I have no issues physically correcting a dog, but to strike it with an open (or closed) hand is shortsighted and borderline abusive.
When's the last time you saw a dog walk up to another and crack it one?
Never, dogs don't have opposable thumbs and can't make a fist, they use their mouths to communicate. If it's necessary to correct a dog, do it in a manner that they understand, i.e a prong collar or a scruffing, something that every dog understands from spending time with it's dam and littermates.

Don't get me wrong, I've done it myself, but it was a situation where it was either I was going to be missing part of my face, or I was going to lay out the Rottie that was charging me hell bent on taking me out. I choose to roundhouse punch him in the head instead and give myself enought time to run for cover .

[maryellen]

since spanking kids and hitting dogs is a touchy subject, please everyone keep it civil or i WILL have to whip you all...

i think with the kids of today they are so cocky that a nice slap on the ass wouldnt hurt, they need to respect adults again ... when i was growing up i never disrespected any adult, that was taboo.... kids today are given too much free reign and have the I want what i want now attitude...

as far as dogs, if a dog is attacking me, you bet i will punch it /kick it to give myself time to escape...

as far as corrections for normal stuff, i dont believe in hitting a dog.. but thats just me..

[Michele]

please everyone keep it civil or i WILL have to whip you all...

some of us may like that.........well, if a dog is attacking me, then by all means, do what you have to do....

[debo-dumbo-ears]

well, when we were kids, if we didn't listen the first 2 times, the 3rd time was going to come w/ a spank. We got regular spankings on the butt & sometimes whippin w/ the leather belt or a wooden spoon, on the butt. Actually, my mom started breaking too many of her wooden spoons & went to plastic. She used to carry a spoon w/ her in the car so she could reach around & beat us while she was driving We laugh about it now, but jeez, my mom must have been crazy w/ 4 kids w/in 7 yrs.

I'm starting to understand that the way we were raised has influenced the way I feel about corporal punishment. I don't have kids, but I fully believe in spankings when necessary (as in not listening the 1st 2 times). I've never spanked a child, as I believe that should be left to parents, not babysitters, but I have spanked my dog & cats. Of course, the force w/ which I spank is tailored to the animal. Generally, just a little swat on the butt, not enough to hurt, just to let them know I'm serious. Now, I'll admit, I did hit Debo harder than that once when I felt like he was being dominant over a toddler. I didn't even think about it - I just reacted. Later on, I felt bad about it & in thinking it over, realized that I should have handled it differently. I could have just made him lay down & put the baby over him to show him who's dominant.

I can't say for sure, since it hasn't been my experience, but I could see how positive reinforcement & removal of privelages could work if that was what was established from the beginning. And if that worked as well or better than corporal punishment, then certainly I would feel that the non-physical methods were better. But I can't say for sure.

[Alan]

Originally Posted by Palamino How old is your pit Alan? Are you the first owner? Your bulldog should never be growling at you, let alone biting you. You are the Alpha and bear in mind that bulldogs are DA and not PA. The latter is a very undesirable trait, whilst the former is understandable and to a certain degree controllable. The problem is when we tend to focus to much atention on what our dogs do wrong as opposed to focusing a lot more attention on what our dogs are doing right. The consequences of inadvertantly teaching a bulldog unwanted behaviour can be serious, especially where aggression to humans is a factor. A PA dog obtained late in its life should not be an option.

That was close to 15 years ago. I had to have that dog pts from old age. He wasnt vicious and never did anything except for that one time. He was just not himself due to the female being in heat. Male dogs are total asses whenever a female in heat is present. They will chew through doors and even fight the devil himself if thats what it takes to get to the female.


One comment on the kids punishment thing. When I was growing up, it would have been perfectly acceptable for one of the neighbors to spank me, send me home and call me parents. Once I got home I would have gotten a spanking from my mom because the neighbor had to spank me. Once my dad got home, I would have got it one more time if I had any ass left lol.

[Palamino]

Times have changed - when I was young "the rod certainly was not spared and the child certainly not spoiled," not at home and not at school. I believe that it made me what I am today.

I have used reasonable force to positively re-enforce desirable behaviour in my dogs. I have also used reasonable force to enforce my role as the Alpha dog and to eliminate undesirable behaviour. Dogs are not humans and they neither understand nor apply equality within their pack structures. There is a distinct difference between force and violence though. My Alpha dog hates being rolled onto his back and my hand being placed upon his chest - I do this to him when needed but never in the presence of the other Beta dogs.

So many dog owners dont understand how the Dogs Mind works and end up - (by means of their sincere good intentions) - creating a problematic future for their dogs.

Eg: You have an 8 year old bulldog and bring a new puppy home. The puppy is boisterous and irritates the older dog - the older dog nips the puppy and the puppy howls - you reprimand the older dog in front of the puppy physically and verbally - you do this with the best intentions off course. 12 months down the line you have a serious fight between these two because the puppy has not learnt to respect his elders "DOGGY STYLE"

A friend of mine thought it quite funny when his puppy was lying on his bed and growled at him when he wanted to take the pup off. He was also impressed at how his puppy "defended" his food and would not allow him to take it from him. He positively re-enforced this unaaceptable negative behaviour. He was an only dog in that house and my friend was the Alpha who had a wife and a young child. He left it to late and when he decided to follow good advice, the damage was done.

Older dogs understand their counterparts minds so much better than we do - dogs often make the best teachers of other dogs and we need to learn how to make use of that and to allow for that. (Within reason of course.)

Tone of voice and body posture are the best forms of reprimand. Being physical is an option...........

[tat2stuff]

When I was growing up, that was the way punishment was administered to a child. I either got the belt or a slap or whatever. I think kids today are more f'ed up because parents can't discipline like that anymore. There is no real fear in kids today, so they do what ever they want. I even got a couple good slaps throughout high school from the teachers ( catholic ). My cousin actually called DYFS on her mother for threatening to punish her one time. My kids got swats on the butt growing up, nothing worse, but I was always leery of doing it in public for fear some dipshit would call the cops on me.

As far as dogs go, I never believed in hitting or punching. A good scruffing always worked best for me. I've honestly never had to discipline a bulldog in that manner though. Usually their worst infractions are counter surfing, eating my steak off the table or being on the furniture, a verbal warning does the trick for that. I think they respond better to positive reinforcement than negative discipline anyway.