[APBTlover09]

While I agree that some dogs need other options, this breed has no room for dogs who are not completey sound. We have to remember that this breed is severly affected by BSL and seeing one HA and fearful dog can ruin a person's thoughts about the breed as a whole, especially if they are seeing a pit bull type mutt with cropped ears... Keep in mind that an apbt/ast/sbt and a bull terrier are very different, I would allow- er, not allow but work on this issue more with a BT than an apbt/mix because they are different. Just a thought from the side that said "euth"...it's just that your puppy sounds like he is miserable and I'm not one for taking chances.

i agree with jillibean

[pitchik]

There is ALWAYS room for dogs that need help-just so long as they are not bred and are kept controlled.

A 6 month old puppy sounds "miserable" OMG!!!!

Lol, anyways, good luck with your puppy.

[amyhatcher]

I reread your first post and was wondering what you meant by picking up your dog face to face? While I dont have a fear aggressive dog, I made the mistake of using outdated techniques to correct behavior that have led to my dog acting aggressive when he doesnt get his way. Leash corrections with a choke or prong collar when meeting others could cause more fear. Ive seen first hand that alpha rolls, or grabbing his cheeks and pulling his face into mine, hitting or any other punitive punishment is causing my dog to be defensive (rather than fearful). I just hope you didnt mean what I was talking about by pulling his cheeks up when he is naughty. Im personally so damn mad that I had bad advice from a trainer, no less and dont want to see the same thing happen to anyone elses dog. We are working hard to correct his behavior with positive reinforcement and just started the cold shoulder routine.

[Hucklebutt]

Agreed. while some say put the dog to sleep thats THERE way of dealing with things, doesnt mean we have to agree. I just dont think its best to convince people thats EXACTLY what they should do, cold blooded murder. Maybe I am selfish because if it was my dog, a pit bull or not, I wouldnt be giving a rats @$$ about what others would want, or whether or not he would be hurting the breed, I would feel like BSL got the best of me and convinced me to kill my dog-seems like they won the war. BSL has literally caused the death of so many pit bulls, and banned them from states and homes, and a way of life. I completly see why people think this way, to cull there dogs for agression, for the sake of others and all the sound pit bulls in the world, its just a bad situation. But I also feel like, because of BSL, and what its done to us and the pitbull breed, people are in a damn hurry to kill all the dogs with SA or HA (to help other dogs), but arent we just adding to the death count, and giving in to BSL? Might as well throw those dogs in the exact same pile...I am selfish, I can admit that, and Euthanasia would be the absolute LAST thing on my to do list for a HA dog, and it would be even furth from any dog under 2 years of age.

[Zoe]

I wouldn't say choosing to euth a dog has to add to the ''death toll''. If anything, it can make room for the more stellar dogs. Dogs get euthed in the pound by the thousands everyday, so the way I look at it, I'd rather euth a dog I owned that was snakey and give one of the rock solid dogs a spot in my home. Same number of dogs dead if we're counting. I also don't consider euth murder. It isn't done out of hate or anger like murder. It's done out of love of the breed and love of the dog who you don't want to see suffer. There are some things worse than death and living in constant fear is one of them. I had the same opinion on euthing HA dogs long before I even heard of BSL. I think I got the message loud and clear while I was trying to pry a HA dog off my ex's arm because they couldn't see what she truely was, even if I could. This was the same dog they made excuses for while it growled at their baby. I'm glad it was his arm she got a hold of and not their babies. They were sure they could ''manage'' or ''fix'' her issues as well.

[Hucklebutt]

i dont think so, i think the fear of BSL has got people who would normally work with there dogs, decide to kill them. But thats just MO, no one needs to agree with me. I would rather spend years trying to help my dog than to spend 30 min having him PTS, because it would be more work to help him, than it would to kill him. Im sorry, having your dog PTS is the easy way out than taking the time and work it would take to help a dog recover, sure its not easy...but its faster, cheaper and quicker. and you will always recover from a euthed dog. But it might be WAY more different, if I had children, I can admit that.

---------- Post added 11-05-2009 at 12:47 AM ---------- Previous post was 11-04-2009 at 11:57 PM ----------

I think a whole lot more goes on with these dogs, there owners and the truth behind many stories. I also think, we will never know the truth, for those who protect there pride. Thats all I have to say.

[Jazzy]

Originally Posted by Hucklebutt i dont think so, i think the fear of BSL has got people who would normally work with there dogs, decide to kill them. But thats just MO, no one needs to agree with me. I would rather spend years trying to help my dog than to spend 30 min having him PTS, because it would be more work to help him, than it would to kill him. Im sorry, having your dog PTS is the easy way out than taking the time and work it would take to help a dog recover, sure its not easy...but its faster, cheaper and quicker. and you will always recover from a euthed dog. But it might be WAY more different, if I had children, I can admit that. ---------- Post added 11-05-2009 at 12:47 AM ---------- Previous post was 11-04-2009 at 11:57 PM ---------- I think a whole lot more goes on with these dogs, there owners and the truth behind many stories. I also think, we will never know the truth, for those who protect there pride. Thats all I have to say.

Probably pointless for me to post just to say I agree with you 1000% - but it just felt really good to do it.

I especially agree with the part about not knowing the whole story. And here's a conundrum: I think there are probably allot of instances (Not all certainly) but allot where the issue is not the dog at all but the owner; and if the owner can't or won't be changed than yes the dog is not a good fit for that home; but that is a far different story than "the dog is unstable we need to kill it". The dog is not unstable; the dog does not have a knowledgable person willing to put in the time, effort and energy so then the choices become 1. rehome the dog with someone who is willing to do it or 2. pts not because the dog is unstable and has to be pts but because that is the owners choice and dogs are property and owner's can make that choice. But it honestly irks me to see this choice dressed up as a great thing that one is doing for the breed and people patted on the back for what a stellar member of the pit bull community they are; and then see people who bust their ass working with dogs with issues putting in their blood, sweat and tears practically treated like pariahs.

I think BSL sucks. It has always been about the people not the dogs; and I am not about to roll over and put it on the dogs by pretending that a "sound" pit bull is a perfect, super dog. A "Sound" pit bull is a dog. All dogs have their own temperments and quirks, just like all people, all living things do...they are not cookie cutter robots and I'm not going to pretend that they are to make anyone happy or allay anyone's fears.

Rant over. Off to work. Sorry if I've offended anyone; that felt very liberating for me.

[Hucklebutt]

I agree, I think a lot of the time, we dont know whats really going on. I would never tell someone to have the dog PTS if I didnt see with my own eyes the case of the dog, and looked at many options before hand. Theres a lot more to the story, and to those who do have there dogs PTS for certain things, I can only PRAY that they exhausted every option first, or considered finding a home where they don't have children, and the time and means to work with a dog. A lot of times people incourage agressive behavior from there dogs when they were pups, which caused it to be a bigger situation when there adults, but can not admit there mistake, and ask for help. All we hear is 'he bit a child!' A lot of these dogs I feel may have a chance to be saved and worked with, and that the dog just really wants and needs some help. I think, fixing and helping these dogs, will speak louder to the public eye, to the BSL crap rather than people who own and love pit bulls, deeming them dead before given a chance, makes us look scared of our own beloved breed, and that we are merely backed into a corner.

There is a disease within bull terriers called SOA (sudden onset agression) which is a siezure based, no control problem. The dog litterally snaps in and out or reality and tries to attack people, dogs. it goes nuts, and within a matter of time, snaps out of it and totally forgets what he just did and is your loving dog again. There is nothing that can be done for SOA, except medicate the hell out of the dog, and lock em up a lot. But there are MORE people working and trying meds and some who even keep the dog for many years diagnosed with SOA. If a person saw an angry bull terrier, most likely they would categorize them in the pit bull group, and its all the same to BSL. My point is, you dont see those people giving a care about what its going to do to BSL, or what it will do to my sound bull terriers SOA free, and im not offended, we are only human, selfish and want to keep our dogs around for us, isnt that why we got them? Hell, I know I didnt get any of my dogs for any other reason than, ME. These bull terriers have a mental problem, that has NOTHING to do with temperment, there is no cure, and they fight like hell to keep there dogs alive, and try everything before Euthanasia, and you know what? They wish to GOD it was just a temperment problem that could be worked out, and they could save there beloved dog. Its sad, there a pits out there, being killed and they can be saved, they can be helped. And there are bull terriers, hopeless ridden with brain disease, and there owners don't give up on them. All I know is, if I am a dog in my next life, I hope I get an owner that wont give up on me.

[Jazzy]

Getting back to the OP and trying to offer something helpful...

as I'm sure you know; there is not a sentence or paragraph that can sum up a quick fix. You are going to have to put effort and energy (and at least a little bit of money) into learning things that you don't currently know about; and then a whole LOT of time consistently practicing and utilizing the new skills and techniques you learn about.

That said; here is an EXCELLENT resource to get you started. Clearly written, easy to understand, chock full of knowledge to help you learn to better read your dog, understand your dog and teach your dog to overcome his fears.

There are entire chapters devoted to treatment of specific fears; some of which are: fear of family members, fear of guests, fear of brushing & nail clipping and a bunch more. There is also a good section of the book devoted to complimentary therapies if one is really determined to go the extra mile. Complimentary therapies are different than training techniques (which the book is FULL of) and consists of things like massage, Ttouch, healing herbs, etc.

The book is written by what I consider to be a reputable author. Nicole Wilde is a Certified Pet Dog Trainer. She works with wolves/wolfdogs, pet dogs and shelter dogs. She hosts a radio show, presents at seminars and is a dog trainer.

Hope you check out the book and find this helpful.

Amazon.com: Help for Your Fearful Dog: A Step-by-Step Guide to Helping Your Dog Conquer His Fears (9780966772678): Nicole Wilde: Books

Amazon.com: Help for Your Fearful Dog: A Step-by-Step Guide to Helping Your Dog Conquer His Fears (9780966772678): Nicole Wilde: Books
Amazon.com: Help for Your Fearful Dog: A Step-by-Step Guide to Helping Your Dog Conquer His Fears (9780966772678): Nicole Wilde: Books

[Michele]

Originally Posted by Teal NEVER do bitework/protection with a fearful dog... NEVER EVER. Your dog does not sound stable. At 6 months old, he should not be exhibiting such extreme behaviour. If it was me, I would put the dog down. You can't fix a dog that is genetically off, and trying to do so only endangers people and other dogs and prolongs the suffering of your own dog. Can you imagine that such a fearful life is ANY fun to live? But I am sure many people here will recommend NILIF and a behaviouralist.

There are a few people here that WOULD recommend a vet checkup, a behaviorist FIRST, before putting a dog down. And there's nothing wrong with that. Some like to exhaust all options first, before tossing out a dog.

[Zoe]

Well, when this dog bites someone, the media isn't going to give a crap whether the dog was mishandled or was genetically unsound. If an owner is SO inept that it is causing a dog to lash out at non existent threats, then that's animal cruelty in and of itself and I'd rather see a dog euthed than live in fear, and see shadows where there are none, REGARDLESS of the cause, even if that is an inept owner. And of course, we all know there are an over abundance of homes looking to take in an aggressive pit bull mix.

Do people seriously think that it is ok for dogs to be so freakin' delicate of mind that they fall apart at nothing? Dogs that if you make one false move in handling, they are suddenly lashing out at you?! Dogs should be ''user friendly'' and ''forgiving'' to some extent, not so delecate of mind that the dog lashes out at every move as a percieved threat. Call me crazy, but I expect a dog to roll with the punches a bit. Have some amount of threshold, not be a nervy mess. Life is stressful. I prefer dogs that aren't going to crumble at the drop of the hat. A prime example of how our breed is going in the shitter. People who accept less than the best as ''ok'' or ''the norm'' and sadly, it IS becoming the norm. I don't know.. maybe I've been lucky in that I've had dogs that are rock solid, even within their fear, and now I feel nothing less will do. Gaud... look at Tank. He went through two horrific owners. The crap that dog had been through would have broke most people and yet he has NEVER waivered in his temperment.

And don't think I haven't had dogs with major issues. Most of the dogs that have come into my care were there because other people gave up on their issues, whether they were born with them, or learned them, I stood by their side and got them through it even if it took years of work, or years of management. In fact I have two here right now that are battling fear issues and I have every intent to see them through them, but if they ever become a danger to the people in their life or start fearing the people that love them and care for them so much that they start aggressing towards us, I will set them free of their fear. Why? Because I love THEM and the breed enough to do what is best for THEM, not what is best for ME or my ego. Just thinking of Deeohgee or Scarling, lashing out at us because they are just that freakin' scared or messed up in the head, breaks my heart, and I wouldn't put them through that. There are things worse than death and living in complete fear of those that are no threat to you, and are on your side, is one of them. It's like someone who is mentally ill and thinks everyone is out to get them. That is just no way for an innocent to live. I see it as my job to do what is in the best interest of the dogs in my care and just like a dog suffering from physical illnesses, sometimes freedom from emotional pain is in the best interest of the dog.

The OP will do what he will do regardless of what anyone says. I just hope he takes MANAGEMENT of this unstable dog, {or owner if you really think that is the issue} into serious consideration so this dog doesn't come back to bite us in the ass, literally and figuratively speaking.

[pitbullhappenings]

Since, I nor anybody else in this Forum, has actually seen exactly what is going on with this dog or what the dog does and does not do... I would recommend taking the dog to the vet to eliminate any health issue...followed up by having a reputable Behaviorist look at the dog and listening to their advice. I would also hope that the OP will further their research and learn all they possibly can. Keep your vigilance high as it always should be anyways and after all the avenues are exhausted I trust you will do what is right in the end.

I, too, have noticed PTS seems to be certain people's first choice and I have to disagree with this mainly for the fact we are online in a Forum and we don't know Exactly what behaviors are being done by this dog, so to offer PTS, as the first and only choice to a solution is just plain wrong IMHO. We only know a few words as a description so I see the Vet and Behaviorists as the Proper way to go, logically, it just makes sense.

To the OP: I highly advise Against the bite/protection work. Go to a Vet and eliminate health issues and see a Professional Behaviorist (face to face to dog). Follow the advice of the Professionals and Please if the dog has issues that are uncorrectable, I trust you will make the right but hard decision. Good Luck!

[Jazzy]

Originally Posted by Zoe Do people seriously think that it is ok for dogs to be so freakin' delicate of mind that they fall apart at nothing? Dogs that if you make one false move in handling, they are suddenly lashing out at you?! Dogs should be ''user friendly'' and ''forgiving'' to some extent, not so delecate of mind that the dog lashes out at every move as a percieved threat. Call me crazy, but I expect a dog to roll with the punches a bit. Have some amount of threshold, not be a nervy mess. Life is stressful. I prefer dogs that aren't going to crumble at the drop of the hat

See Zoe here is the thing: you have allot of experience and you are very knowledgable. If something is going wrong with a dog in your care I would absolutely feel comfortable that is has to be the dog and not something that you are doing.

Now I myself am not that far removed from being an uneducated and clueless owner that I cannot fully imagine and appreciate the stupid things people unknowingly do that create behavior problems in their dogs; and if the people are creating them then I see that as environmentally influenced learned behavior not a sign of unsoundenss. People can create and reinforce aggressive behavior in dogs.

My point is: how can we possibly tell over the internet what it is? And if it is environmentally influecned learned behavior; there's a good chance that it can be unlearned if the owner is then given the proper information & tools and is commited to working on it.

I've had V. for a little over 3 years. Before I got her I knew nothing about training and next to nothing about dog behavior. I wasn't interested; and I didn't know what I didn't know. I did however have a dog. Luckily my first dog as an adult was a Basset Hound. I taught her to be food aggressive. I did a marvelous job; she was very good at it.

Now obviously I didn't intend to teach her to be FA. I didn't even realize I had until years later when she had passed away at the ripe old age of 14 and I decided I wanted a pit bull (short haired medium sized non-drooly affectionate dog) and thanks to missing my baby and watching Cesar to see the dogs it dawned on me that...perhaps if I were going to get a pit bull...I might train it.

Anyway, in preparation for getting V. I was researching and reading and I can across some training suggestions on what I might do to prevent resource guarding behaviors from developing and a light bulb went off in my head and I realized at that point that I had caused my Basset's FA. Single handedly. It was all me.

Can you imagine if Fran (my BH) was a pit bull and I had come on this forum and said; well she's @ a year old now; I can't take treats or anything she has in her mouth away from her. If I try I absolutely will get a good bite. I also can't walk too close to her while she's eating dinner because she'll spaz out and attack my feet - growling and muzzle punching and sort of snapping I guess (We were all very good at getting out of the way & we had no kids). How many people would right off the bat say "She's unsound, pts"? Would anyone even think to ask any questions to see if I was contributing to the behavior? If they did they'd have to awfully explicit because I didn't realize at the time what I was doing that was creating the behavior; so I wouldn't have offered it as relevant information. Then if I took the advice and put my dog down; I'd be lonely and I'd get another; and I'd do all the same things because I still wouldn't know any better; and then I'd wind up with another "unsound dog"...

I'm just saying that none of us; not even the best of us - and I totally don't put myself in that category; are qualified to make an internet diagnosis. I don't understand why suggesting that someone's first consideration should be to have the situation assessed in person by a professional is not even considered by some folks who want to go straight to pts. Not only is it not fair to the dog; but fairness aside; if the owner is doing something wrong - they'll never know and continue to repeat it.

[Hucklebutt]

[/quote]if the owner is doing something wrong - they'll never know and continue to repeat it.[/quote]


exactly! very very true! A lot of the times its the owners fault and they dont know it, or no one has pointed it out. i was watching cesar millan yesterday with a yorkie that attacks the broom, and then the man of the house mentioned sometimes he shoos the dog away with the broom, and cesar was like 'well that explains it!'

my bull terrier was a pup and he would bark at people, i incrouaged the behavior by saying 'get em!' i thought it was soo cute to see him barking, and i liked the protection feel. some people might look at him now, the barking, protective, vocal dog he is and say my god that dog is a mental train wreck. but you dont notice he barks, growls and than looks at me...why? he is saying 'is this good mamma?' needless to say, i had to fix the mistake i made, and i did, i worked with him and taught him 'enough' where he will stop barking. when we tell people to euth there dogs with out knowing the whole story we add to the death count, we add to BSL, we give and we back down. and we are supposed to be advocates of the breed, we should have more faith in our breed and we should believe in being able to help and fix them. everyone is intitled to there own oppinion and we are all stubborn people who will not back down, i understand that. but i am just sooo happy there are people out there that agree with me!! it gives me hope cause i was freaking out i was the only one who thought there is more to the story, and more should be done besides being rushed to death. thanks guys!! :doggyhug2 :

[Zoe]

Do people think I came into the breed with all the knowledge I have now? My first dogs, OMG, I made TONS of mistakes, but because they were stable in temperment, it didn't matter. They rolled with it and STILL came out on top, dispite my inept handling. I guess that's my point. It reminds me of when I was researching falconry and learning about Harris Hawks. They talked about how they are so forgiving that even someone who was not adept, could start out with them and make tons of mistakes and it was irrelevent as the bird wouldn't be adversely affected by it. Alot of falconers don't like to see them used as someone's first birds as the person learns bad habits because the bird is so forgiving, where other birds, you have to be much more careful with as it is greatly affected by your every move. I guess that's how I see this breed. The Harris Hawk of the dog world. The term ''bomb proof'' says it all. The dog can be put through the ringer and come out the other end waggin'. I've seen it again and again and it never ceases to amaze me, but when I see dogs that at six months old are already a wreck, and people don't see this as a huge problem, and try to make excuses for it, regardless of the ''cause'', it makes me more fearful for the breed, because it's coming from the inside, not from the anti pit bull folk. IMO, this isn't a breed you should have to tip toe around. Handling mistakes shouldn't result in a dog that is falling apart, and I'm sorry, but a dog that is showing HA is not a dog I would 'have faith in' as I don't see it as good enough to be associated with the rock solid dogs of this breed, and how a BH or BT reacts to handling is irrelevant IMO. Totally different breeds and I expect WAY more out of my breed. Look what they were bred for. They were bred to take the heat. The hallmark of this great breed outside of the pit, is it's stability with people. Without that, what do we have but a bunch of snakey ass dogs that *I* would vote to outlaw! With dogs that are this physically and mentally able, messing around with faulty temperment is not good for anyone, let along the dogs. I wonder how many people here have actually seen an unstable pit bull go full out on a person? Well, I have, and if I can prevent that from happening again by showing people what they CAN be as a breed, by taking a hard line, which in the long run will benefit not only the individual dogs and the breed, but the people who love them as well, I'll risk being seen as a hard ass. With all the resources it would take to try to ''fix'' and unstable dog, I could go and pull three dogs out of the shelter, that are rock solid and give them a chance at life and I personally would much rather do that, but to each his own. Like I said though, the OP will do what the OP will do. At least he got to hear all sides. I just want him to know that this is NOT the norm, nor should it be, but when we start making excuses for crap temperment, it WILL become the norm, then we are all screwed.

[ganja]

Originally Posted by Hucklebutt Agreed. while some say put the dog to sleep thats THERE way of dealing with things, doesnt mean we have to agree. I just dont think its best to convince people thats EXACTLY what they should do, cold blooded murder. Maybe I am selfish because if it was my dog, a pit bull or not, I wouldnt be giving a rats @$$ about what others would want, or whether or not he would be hurting the breed, I would feel like BSL got the best of me and convinced me to kill my dog-seems like they won the war. BSL has literally caused the death of so many pit bulls, and banned them from states and homes, and a way of life. I completly see why people think this way, to cull there dogs for agression, for the sake of others and all the sound pit bulls in the world, its just a bad situation. But I also feel like, because of BSL, and what its done to us and the pitbull breed, people are in a damn hurry to kill all the dogs with SA or HA (to help other dogs), but arent we just adding to the death count, and giving in to BSL? Might as well throw those dogs in the exact same pile...I am selfish, I can admit that, and Euthanasia would be the absolute LAST thing on my to do list for a HA dog, and it would be even furth from any dog under 2 years of age.

last thing on the list for a truely HA dog? (not talking about fear agression but true human agression)
for me, it would be the first and only option...

I have had a FA dog, and I worked with him.
but ONE growl at me or my family and that dog would've been euthed.

I am all for working with dogs that have some FA problems, but only to a certain point.
he growled and barked, but believe me he backed away VERY quickly when someone did try to approach him.

and mine only got limited time to prove he's worthy of being worked with.
I have spend 3 months working with him, boosting his confidence with a certified behaviorist who told me he wasn't truely FA, just abused from the first time he opened his eyes (and that's something I know for fact) but it was fixable.
and that dog just went from night to day.
but not all dogs are the same!
personally, I wouldn't want to work for more than 3-4 months with a FA dog. it's just to much of a liability... especially if that dog would be growling at his handler!

FA dogs are one of the worst kind, they are unpredictable and not trust worthy

get a certified behaviorist to evaluate the dog and take it from there.

this breed can not take another black eye in the state it's in today, sorry.

wanna keep a truely HA dog? fine with me, as long as he's muzzled all the time when walking and crated everytime someone gets in the house
make sure that dog can cause NO harm to other people nor yourself or you'll only be adding fuel to BSL.

[APBTlover09]

Originally Posted by ganja last thing on the list for a truely HA dog? (not talking about fear agression but true human agression) for me, it would be the first and only option... I have had a FA dog, and I worked with him. but ONE growl at me or my family and that dog would've been euthed. I am all for working with dogs that have some FA problems, but only to a certain point. he growled and barked, but believe me he backed away VERY quickly when someone did try to approach him. and mine only got limited time to prove he's worthy of being worked with. I have spend 3 months working with him, boosting his confidence with a certified behaviorist who told me he wasn't truely FA, just abused from the first time he opened his eyes (and that's something I know for fact) but it was fixable. and that dog just went from night to day. but not all dogs are the same! personally, I wouldn't want to work for more than 3-4 months with a FA dog. it's just to much of a liability... especially if that dog would be growling at his handler! FA dogs are one of the worst kind, they are unpredictable and not trust worthy get a certified behaviorist to evaluate the dog and take it from there. this breed can not take another black eye in the state it's in today, sorry. wanna keep a truely HA dog? fine with me, as long as he's muzzled all the time when walking and crated everytime someone gets in the house make sure that dog can cause NO harm to other people nor yourself or you'll only be adding fuel to BSL.

[Hucklebutt]

first and only option? well that makes sense for you i guess.

---------- Post added at 12:38 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:36 AM ----------

i do not understand why you guys would euth a dog for a growl! dogs talk, they communicate, they can not speak our language and to just euth? dogs are so irriplacable for some of you, honestly. that is just sad!! euth now ask questions later i guess! someone close this thread before it gets ugly!!

[Jazzy]

For Lurkers who are on the fence...those who have not entirely made up their minds on the subject...or would like to explore it more in depth...

may I humbly recommend reading (cover to cover; as it is an excellent resource):

Aggression In Dogs: Practical Managment, Prevention and Behavior Modification by Brenda Aloff.

Amazon.com: Aggression in Dogs (9781591960737): Brenda Aloff: Books

Amazon.com: Aggression in Dogs (9781591960737): Brenda Aloff: Books
Amazon.com: Aggression in Dogs (9781591960737): Brenda Aloff: Books

[Zoe]

I've raised dogs from puppyhood that died in old age and NEVER growled at me or the kids, dispite my inexperience in handling and being exposed to MANY stressful scenarios in their life time. When there are dogs like that, why would I tolerate a dog that threatens me and my family? Tank and Arez are 11, still have yet to growl at me or the kids. Deeoghee and Scarling neither and they both have fear issues. I can't count the fosters I've had that have been through living freakin' hell and still never growled at any of my family members. It amazes ME that people will put up with that crap from a dog.