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Thread: female pit is attacking male pit
09-10-2011, 06:12 PM #1Junior Member
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female pit is attacking male pit
My sister in law and brother in law recently had to move in with me. They have a female red nose pitbull who is a year old and recently came into heat. I own a male pit bull who is 4 years old and very, very very passive( he does not growl or anything). When we first introduced the female to tookie (the male) he smelt her and she smelt him and immidiatley attacked him by biting down on his neck. Her jaw locked up and my son and brother in law took 5 minutes to get her off of him. She left a big puncture wound on his neck. We bought a muzzle and she couldn't bit him but was trying to the whole time. Eventually she got the muzzle off and we had to throw it out. We then decided to go buy a kennel so that she could not attack the male anymore, but at the same time they could see and smell eachother. We thought she would eventually get used to tookie, but its been a week already and she still tries to attack him every chance she gets. She even goes as far as jumping 4 foot barriers we put up just to get to him and try to harm him. She is a lovable dog to humans but for some reason she is always trying to attack the male pit bull. ( Both the male and female are not fixed, as we were planning on mating the pair. lol. Tookie the male is twice the females size and dont try to attack her or defend himself. The sad part is that tookie really likes bently the female, but she is always trying to attack him. Im at a loss as to what we can do. We have to live together and we both love our dogs too much to even think to get rid of either one. Its at a point now though where it is getting dangerous for tookie as well as the people trying to break it up. The odd part is that bently the female does not bark, growl or give any signals that she is angry or wants to attack tookie. She just lundges for him, foams at the mouth and gets into a trans. We thought that her anger towards tookie might be due to her first menstral cycle and her hormones might be out of wack. lol. However, her period is just about finished and her aggresion towards tookie has not changed. If anyone out there has any advice or has come across a similar situation, I would greatly appriciate it.
09-10-2011, 06:23 PM #2
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First of all welcome! Dog aggression is common in this breed as they were bred for dog on dog combat. I would keep them seperated from now on either by crate and rotate or a proper chain spot before one of them ends seriously injured or dead. Her being in heat has nothing to do it. Get a breakstick and learn how to us it. Dog aggression can only managed, not trained out of them. :)
Always Expect a Bulldog To Fight
Being a responsible APBT owner
Responsible uses of a Breakstick
09-10-2011, 06:26 PM #3
To address some word choices in your post:
1) Her jaw did not lock. No dog's jaws lock. That is a myth.
2) The correct term is not period. It is heat.
To address the actual issues:
1) Aggression towards other dogs is normal. It's not something you can change. While they are normally very sweet with people, they often do not share their affection with other animals.
2) Many people on this forum own dogs that do not get along. You can solve this by crating and rotating the two dogs. They should never be close enough to one another for a fight to happen. Here is information on crate and rotate: Rotate
3) To break up dog fights, you should have a break stick on hand. Here is information on how to use one: Responsible uses of a Breakstick
And here is a video on its proper use:
4) What has your dog done to deserve breeding? Is he/she a conformation champion? Does he/she have sports titles? Does he/she perform some type of work? Has he/she had health tests done such as PennHip or OFA? Please read these links:
Are You A Backyard Breeder
So You Want To Breed Your Female
Last edited by Tiffseagles; 09-10-2011 at 06:28 PM.
09-10-2011, 06:29 PM #4
She is dog aggressive. It's in her genes and can't be trained out. The best to hope for is to be able to manage her aggression. Others will chime in with some tips to do that.
As far as breeding them. Please ask yourself a few simple questions. Is your dog breeding quality? Is your dog a purebred?
If not, get him or her neutered/spayed (S/N). If s/he is purebred ... ask yourself these questions: Where did you get the dog; from a backyard breeder, an animal shelter or you found it, get it S/N.
If you got it from a breeder, did you get a three-to five-generation pedigree with your dog? If not, get it S/N. Are there at least four titled dogs, (conformation, tracking, obedience, etc.) in the last three generations, and if not, get the dog S/N.
If you have these titles, does s/he have a stable temperament, does s/he fit the breed standard and is s/he healthy and certified (OFA, CERF) free of genetic diseases. If s/he meets all the requirements, there is one more consideration.
You may have a dog of breeding quality. "However, if you are not active in showing or working your dog, think very carefully about your reason for breeding. Breeding should be done to improve the breed, not so the kids can see puppies being born or because you want a puppy from this dog. And never breed to make money selling puppies. Don't breed out of greed."
Last edited by JoeBingo; 09-10-2011 at 06:32 PM.
09-10-2011, 06:30 PM #5Diamond Member
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- May 2007
One, a bitch in heat is, well, a bitch. LOL.
Two, dog aggression is very common in the breed, and the two dogs should just be kept separate, but especially be kept separate since she is in heat.
Three, invest in a break stick and learn how to properly use it. The jaws don't really lock. It's just the tenacity, never give up spirit. The break stick will help end the fight quicker.
Four, why are you going to breed them? Are they great hunting dogs, weight pullers, etc? Or just you like your pet and he likes his pet? If they are both just great pets (which is great), I highly suggest against breeding them. I did an one time backyard breeding, and trust me, it only adds to the problem the breed faces, it doesn't help it.
09-10-2011, 06:47 PM #6Premium Member
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- Mar 2008
All I can do is echo what has been said already... so, I will.
They do not have locking jaws. What they DO have is enough determination and will to make it DAMN hard to get them apart if you aren't using a break stick (and using it properly).
The bitch being in season (in season or in heat are the correct terms) may make her edgier and more aggressive to the male, but you will never be able to train her to like him. Dog aggression is genetic and a normal trait of the breed. Her not making any sounds/giving any warning before going after him is a sign that she is truly DA - she is focused and intent on killing him, and not wasting time making a show of it.
Keep the two dogs separated at all times, or you WILL end up with at the very least, hefty vet bills... and at the very most, a dead dog.
And above all else - ABSOLUTELY DO NOT BREED THEM. There is simply no reason to.
09-10-2011, 06:57 PM #7
Anyway, to the OP, x1000 what everyone else said. Spend a minute or two and look up the breed's history, it will help you better understand the dog's behavior. You should research any breed thoroughly before deciding to own one, even if their original purpose is either illegal or no longer popular. We created these dogs, the least we can do is have a little respect for their past.
09-10-2011, 07:07 PM #8Premium Member
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- Mar 2008
09-11-2011, 06:17 AM #9Junior Member
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- Sep 2011
Well, i just wanted to start off by thanking everyone for taking the time to give me some feedback as to what i should do. But as for breeding them........ she is a pure bred red nose pitbull, however, tookie is not. The only reason i was even thinking about mating them was because i have a lot of friends and family members who also want to own a pit bull. Nothing is set in stone yet anyway. At first i went out and purchased a muzzle for her, but all she would do is try and rip it off her snout. It lasted for a whole 5 minutes. lol. I then bought a kennel with a door and placed it in the living room. That way they could possibly get used to each other. Bently the female is mine, and Tookie the male is my sister-in-laws. I recently moved out of my apartment and both Bently and myself are staying with Tookie and my sister-in-law for a couple of months. Even though it is technically Tookie's house should i still alternate or let them take turns being in the cage? Bently is not an angry do at all. There is actually a female lab mix named princess who lives here too. Bently shows no aggression towards her and when she was 7 months old she was around three blue nose pit bulls and never once tried to harm them. All three were male too. I understand that I cannot train her to "like" him, i just want them to get along with each other.
---------- Post added at 06:17 AM ---------- Previous post was at 06:08 AM ----------
What is a break stick and how does one go about using it? I could never harm my dog. She is like my daughter, but if it is a useful tool in training her and is not meant to inflict pain, then i'm all for it. lol. Also, i was told that pit bulls get a bad rap because of the fact the they are fighting dogs. I for one believe that it all depends on how you raise the dog. That's why i'm completely dumbfounded because Bently is one of the sweetest dogs that i've had the pleasure of owning, and it breaks my heart to see her become so vicious towards tookie. Also, if i do rotate them in the crate, how often should this be done?
Last edited by CoolHandJean; 09-11-2011 at 05:57 PM.
09-11-2011, 08:38 AM #10
I posted the video of how to use a break stick. Please watch it. The man in the video isn't using a break stick per say, but he is using a tool that does the same job. It is designed to help break up a fight if one were to occur. It is a safety measure. One that every bully breed owner should have.
We developed different breeds for different purposes because dogs of those breeds had certain behavioral tendencies. By selectively breeding dogs for many, many generations to want to do a certain task, you increased the likelihood that their offspring would be driven to do the same task. In the case of pit bulls, that means you increase the likelihood that they will be aggressive towards other dogs. Your mistake is that you believe genetics have no affect on a dog's behavior. They DO. Your female is still young and her aggression towards other dogs is likely to worsen as she gets older. It is a common breed trait. It says so in the breed standard.
By asking her to get along with him and live peaceably with him, you are asking her to like him. She doesn't. Accept that.
Yes, they should take turns in the crate. Put the crate somewhere that they do not see each other (like a bedroom with a closed door). While they are in the crate having down time, give them a special snack that they only get while they are in the crate, like a Kong with frozen yogurt or peanut butter or a frozen marrow bone. They will learn to LOVE their crate time because they get these extra special treats! They should never be out together again.
If they both have to be out for some reason, then they both needs to be kept on a leash and away from one another. We can give you tips on how to make her ignore other dogs while on leash, but just because she ignores them on leash does NOT mean she wants to be buddies with them. Many extremely dog aggressive dogs will go after another dog that runs up to them, but have been trained to behave themselves as long as other dogs stay out of biting distance.
Lastly, there is no reason to breed a dog that is not purebred, health tested and titled. There are hundreds of pit bull puppies being killed at shelters every day and dozens of responsible breeders that have all of this done. If your friends want a pit bull puppy, please educate them about what you are experiencing with your girl right now as it is very likely that their puppy will behave in a similar manner at some point. If they still want a puppy, direct them to petfinder.com or direct them to attend an ADBA dog show.
Last edited by CoolHandJean; 09-11-2011 at 05:58 PM.
09-11-2011, 01:35 PM #11Diamond Member
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- May 2007
Going by what you said, I suggest you don't breed them. I am sure they are fantastic dogs, and I know how it can be. People like your dogs, and want one from them, but there are plenty of sweet pups at shelters/rescues that need a home, or they can find a Reputable Breeder and get a pup from them. Like I said, I made that mistake once, and won't do it again, and try to help other people not make the same mistake.
Dog Aggression is very common, not matter how they are raised. Just like a beagle wants to hunt, and a Retriever wants to fetch.
A break stick won't hurt them. Someone on here I think sells them. Stillwater Kennels sells them, and Pit Bull Rescue Central sells them.
Last edited by CoolHandJean; 09-11-2011 at 01:48 PM.
09-11-2011, 01:59 PM #12
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- TRIM YOUR DOGS NAILS BEFORE I BRING IT UP Land, right next to MD
How often do your dogs get exercised? What types of activities do you do w/them? Are they exercised together or apart?
Just because you have a BEAUTIFUL PURE BRED Pit Bull , and someone would LOOVE to have one of their adorable puppies doesnt mean YOU NEED to BREED them. If you'd like to discuss where your fam. is located ... Im sure that the ppl who know ppl who know ppl on this forum can help you/them locate the most beautiful red/blue/black/patched/brindle PitBull that would suit their needs. It's almost like you get to pick out EXACTLY WHAT YOU WANT from their temperment,personality, energy,and all the to their looks. $#@! i know a few places that have ceased 2generations of papered pure bred AmStaff including a young preg female. Right now, sounds like everyone in the house hold needs to figure out what rols they are goin to play to keep the dogs balenced and not stressed out. EXERCISE/activies for the dogs are what you neeed to be forcused on. Keeping the dogs seperated while female is in heat.. is a NO BRAINER.
09-11-2011, 01:59 PM #13Junior Member
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- Sep 2011
Rebuttle for your LOVELY tips
This is Maria and I'm not as passive as my brother-in-law Rich. I have no hair on my tongue and do not have a problem telling you people what I think! First of all, I did not come on this site to have wise azz remarks posted back to me. Forgive the hell out of me if we are not experts like all of you and didn't use proper terms. This goes to "tiffseagles", although I appreciate your advice, that is not a wise crack. Yes, I'll admit I don't know anything about the breed, but you have no idea how I acquired Tookie. So I'll enlighten you! Tookie was being kept in a basement with no human contact and very little food. When my son saw this he was appalled and knew he had to rescue him. The man who had Tookie was so eager to get rid of him he just gave Tookie to my son Ryan. My son called me up and explained the situation to me and we took him in. I didn't sit back and say "hmmm, let me research this breed and gee, he better be champion blood line" and all the so-called proper stuff you talk about. I just knew I had to get him out of that situation. Ryan explained to me that Tookie was very passive, because I have a female fixed black lab and was concerned about Tookie hurting her.
Needless to say; from the moment he brought this skinny dog home he has been wonderful. I have yet to hear him growl or even show the least bit of aggression even when Bentley is attacking him. As far as the thought of breeding them, it was just that..... a thought. But even if I decide to breed Tookie I am responsible enough to make sure the pups go to homes that will keep the dog for his or her entire life and not abuse them. I understand now because another rude person explained to me that her aggression could be passed on down the line, so I wouldn't let Tookie breed with her. I may never breed him, because that's not my main concern. My main concern is loving both my dogs like they were my children, feeding them properly, and taking them to a vet when needed. There are so many dogs out there being abused and starved. I feel good that my dogs have a loving home.
Tookie does NOT work for me and he doesn't need some SPORTS TITLE to be a great dog. It sounds like you are more interested in what the dogs can DO for YOU and how many great titles your dogs can hold. I find that to be very sad. You are like many people in the world who are concerned about having the best labels on and what people may think of you if you fall a little short. I will pray for you.
Ok, now on to "JoeBingo". Thank you for telling me that her aggression is in her genes, but you too are more concerned in (I'll use your words) whether im active in "showing or working" my dogs. I do not have dogs to have them work for me or to show everyone else in your mind frame, WOW look how great my dog is! I don't care what anyone else thinks. I have dogs to love them and make them part of my family. So again, thanks for the tips.
Now this is for "Teal". I really want to thank you for being sensible enough to treat me like a human and not make fun of me because I don't know the correct terms. I wish there were more people like you out there.
Ok, back to "Tiffseagles". The thread you posted (the last one, today at 8:38am). I read and took everything you said to me to be honest and willing to truly want to give me good sound advice, and for that I thank you from the bottom of my heart. From now on though, it would be nice if you got a little more background on the dog, the owner and situation before commenting. Because sometimes things that people say are hurtful to others. Especially when the person saying the hurtful things does not know the whole story, and the person on the recieving end is just looking for some advice or help from people that may know more about the question being asked. So again, my name is Maria and am happy to have gotten this off my chest.
Last edited by CoolHandJean; 09-11-2011 at 06:05 PM.
09-11-2011, 02:36 PM #14Premium Member
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- Mar 2008
O.O You must have the wrong Teal... I'm not that nice.
Last edited by CoolHandJean; 09-11-2011 at 06:07 PM.
09-11-2011, 02:36 PM #15
Glad you got that off your chest. I am sorry you are too blind to see that it is useless to breed more pets as there are plenty of those dying in shelters everyday. Around here people(myself including) feel it's necessary to only breed those that have proven themselves before being bred. I'm sure you have good intentions, sadly "the road to Hell is paved with good intentions"
09-11-2011, 02:37 PM #16
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- Jun 2011
- Harmony, California
Maria, while I understand you are offended you clearly misunderstood what was being said. Some people are VERY straightforward here..its not a bad thing really. No one is saying you have to work a dog for it to be a good dog. They were responding to the statement about breeding...breeding untitled dogs is irresponsible and selfish since there are a lot of them in rescues already. Breeding can be costly and sometimes even deadly for the female and breeding without the purpose to better a breed is not a good idea. No one responsible wants to buy a pup from a backyard breeder. I am not attacking you, please don't read it that way, I am explaining what they meant.
Many of us own rescued dogs...many of them don't work, many of them do. The difference is that you mention breeding..which hurts all of us a little because of the fact that two factors come into play. Firstly that pit bulls are put down every day in shelters..and bringing more into the world to be just "pets" is not fair or right. Secondly that most people who don't breed professionally end up not giving all buyers the full information on this breed, that they are super high energy and dog aggressive by nature. So people take the pups..the pup grows up,,injures or kills another dog and pays the price for the owners mistake. I AM NOT SAYING YOU WOULD FORGET TO WARN PEOPLE. Just that many back yard breeders do.
09-11-2011, 02:39 PM #17
And you don't know the whole story so calm down.
My dog doesn't have papers or titles nor does he participate in any organized sanctioned activities. He will never be bred either. I don't want any dogs to end up in a life like my Rowdy started out in. Sure, you may get damn lucky and find good homes for a mutt litter of puppies you allow to happen, but what about if those dogs are bred too? How can you be sure what will happen to those dogs? Do you even care ... out of sight out mind maybe?
How many dogs, even unknowingly do you want to end up in a basement, just like Tookie. It would most likely be foolish to even think about breeding that dog.
I can tell you my dog is not worthy of breeding and i can also tell you, Tookie PROBABLY isn't either. There are too many dogs, damn good dogs, who are in rescues and shelters begging for a home. We don't need any more Tookies and we don't need any more Row-dytes ... it just multiplies and compounds the problems of overpopulation.
I hope you stick around to have the foggiest clue of what makes a dog worthy of breeding.
Now ... Rowdy's story ...
Before my pit bull came into my life, I did not feel one way or the other about pit bulls, except that I felt it unnecessary for people to spend money to buy a particular breed of dog.
There are too many dogs in shelters that make wonderful pets and need good homes. Most are, of course, mixed breeds.
My dog (Sugar) was adopted from the humane society in December of ‘06. I have no idea what "breed" she is. When asked, I usually just say something like, "she is one of a kind."
One night while in the backyard, Sugar was raising cane at the chain link fence gate. I exited the backyard on the other side of the yard away from Sugar to investigate.
Rounding to the front of the house, I looked across the yard and up and down the street ... nothing. Walking the front yard and over to Sugars side, I found she was still extremely agitated.
As I walked up to the outside of the gate to calm Sugar down within, out of the corner of my eye, I caught a glimpse of a reddish brown body rapidly closing quietly and low to the ground from the shadows on me. In a split second I realized it was a pit bull as I brought my .45cal pistol on target and my adrenaline pumped. In another split second, I recognized the body language of the dog. It was entirely submissive.
I could see the dog was in bad shape. He was under nourished and eaten up with fleas and ticks. Still, I allowed the dog into my backyard. I didn't have the heart to turn it away.
I called the local shelter and Animal Control the next day and asked if anyone had reported a missing pit bull. "Nope". Over the next three weeks, I got the dog into much better shape.
Then, one day I made the mistake of letting him out in the unfenced part of the yard for 10 minutes while I made a quick run to the neighborhood store. Came back and he was gone.
An anguished week went by and he was back at my fence again one night. Again, he was under nourished and eaten up with fleas.
I kept him and nursed him for the next two weeks. Then, while checking my mail one day, a fellow stopped and asked had I seen a red dog running loose. I admitted immediately that yes I had and he was in my backyard. I found out the dogs name, Rowdy. Later I was told that he was the runt in a liter of ten. His mother was red and father, brindle.
While I was anxious to find the owner if Rowdy was indeed lost, I did not want to return Rowdy to a place where he was not well cared for. I told the guy, "if this dog shows back up at my house in the same shape he was in when he first came here, I will take him to a place where you will never see him again."
I knew that statement would upset the guy, but I felt strongly about it. No animal should live like Rowdy was living.
The guy $#@!ured me that he took good care of his dogs and that Rowdy had been out for some time and he had no idea where he was or what care if any he had been getting.
Later that afternoon, I went to the guy’s house to check it out. There I found Rowdy and Rowdy's mother, Penny (they looked like twins) and saw for myself that they were indeed well cared for and loved. But, I told the guy that if he ever decided he didn't want or could not care for Rowdy, I would take him.
Well, another couple of weeks went by and guess what, yep, Rowdy was back at 0530 in the morning, at my gate. Sugar let me know from our bedroom.
Rowdy was pretty sick. He could not even hold a small amount of water down and was gacking all over the place. He was boney again and had fleas. I knew he had gotten out for a few days and gotten into a bad garbage can somewhere.
I called Rowdy's owner at 0730, before he went to work to let him know I had his dog. The guy asked if I would keep Rowdy until he got off work that afternoon. I said I would.
That afternoon when the guy came by, he said, "I have thought about it all day at work and decided to give him to you if you still wanted him."
And that is how Rowdy, found me. He picked me, I did not pick him. I have had him now, since August of ’07.
Rowdy has been a gentle, friendly, lovable dog toward EVERY person I have socialized him with. I would not trust him around/alone with other dogs and he does not like cats though.
I found out Rowdy and Sugar are the same age, only one month apart in age, and they get along GREAT. Rowdy is intact and Sugar has been spayed.
It was after the guy gave me Rowdy, that I started letting Rowdy into my home, and now both Rowdy and Sugar sleep with me each night. Rowdy has to sleep either on my arm or pressed directly against me while Sugar, the aloof one, owns the rest of the bed.
Pit bulls are not for everyone, but if you are responsible, educated about pit bull traits, and have patience to properly train your pit bull, you will have a devoted, versatile dog that will astonish you with their athleticism and reward you with their enthusiasm and willingness to excel at just about any activity. Pit bulls are simply wonderful pets. As one member on Pit Bull Chat said, "They are good for the soul" ... indeed !!!
Last edited by JoeBingo; 09-11-2011 at 02:42 PM.
09-11-2011, 02:47 PM #18
I corrected the poster because this forum is for educational purposes. I was sharing knowledge on correct terminology. If helping to educate someone is wrong, then I plead guilty. Nothing I said was sarcastic. It was all factual. If it came across any other way, I do apologize as it is difficult to tell sometimes what someone's intention is over the internet.
As far as wanting the best labels on an animal, that couldn't be further from the truth. I work at an animal shelter. None of those dogs have titles, papers or health testing and there are many WONDERFUL dogs there. However, the whole point of responsible breeding should be to better a breed. You cannot do this objectively unless the dog is tested in some venue like those I mentioned. There is no need for more 'pet quality' dogs as all of those dogs listed on Petfinder, and the ones at the shelter I work at, are there because there are not enough homes, millions more die every year because of breedings of 'pet quality' dogs (this is a term used to describe dogs that are not health tested, worked, shown in conformation or involved in a sport). Again, I meant to provide information and to help educate. It was not meant as an attack.
Last edited by CoolHandJean; 09-11-2011 at 06:11 PM.
09-11-2011, 02:49 PM #19
---------- Post added at 11:49 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:47 AM ----------
Tiff admit it. You were trying to ruin her day with knowledge. ;)
Last edited by CoolHandJean; 09-11-2011 at 06:15 PM.
09-11-2011, 02:51 PM #20
The rest of the story ...
Rowdy's dam, Penny had the litter Rowdy was a part of when she was less than 2 years old. The guy allowed Penny to have one more litter so that he could sell the pups for $300 each before he moved out of town, as he was a transient construction worker.
He sold all but 4 puppies and killed them. He called animal control to pick Penny up and signed papers to have her put down. The sorry $#@! only used dogs to make money.
So yeah, I'm a little pissed when folks come on here and talk about breeding dogs from unknown origin and pedigree because I know where many of those resulting generations of dogs will end up. I also know that many of those dogs will be genetically faulty in temperament. It pisses me off that you are even thinking about breeding Tookie.
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