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12-11-2010, 10:54 AM #1
can you feed half raw and half kibble
i`m looking into feeding raw have read a couple different articles and web site recommendations.i`m still not ready to make the jump.
Does anybody feed a partial raw diet with kibble.?
I have been feeding Zena and Reno TOTW and they do well on it.I have two deer an elk and a couple hundred pounds of pig meat in two freezers from a couple months ago.how would I figure out what ratio weight of meat to kibble I should start at?or is that a no no and i should feed only one or the other?
the only raw meat they get right now is once or twice a week Reno catches a bunny on our walks.i used to take it away from him and Zena and skin it out for them,but they have learned how to eat them there selves.
12-11-2010, 10:56 AM #2
You can, but not at the same time. Do one meal as just kibble and one as just raw. They digest at different rates, and can cause some issues if fed together
Agree w/ Annie there. I've heard of some people who say they feed raw & kibble together without any problems, but I wouldn't chance it, especially when you're first starting out. Is the TOTW you're feeding grain-free? I've heard that a grain-free kibble will interact w/ raw better. But still, easier & safer just to feed one in the morning & the other in the evening, or something like that.
As far as figuring out ratios & that, the general rule is approximately 80% meat, 10% bone & 10% organs (liver & kidney is the easiest to get). From there, you adjust according to how your dog does. The test is poop. Seriously, too much bone will cause dry, crumbly, hard to p$#@! poops. Too much organs (or sometimes too much meat) can cause very loose, watery poops.
Generally, in a raw diet, dogs eat approximately 2%-4% of their body weight in a day. So if you're going to feed half raw & half kibble, I'd feed half the regular amount of kibble each day & start w/ about 1.5% of their weight in raw per day. If they start to gain or lose weight, then adjust the amount of food from there. You could adjust the kibble or the raw, whichever you prefer.
Hope that helps! And you are a lucky dog to have all that wild game in the freezer. IMO, that meat is worlds better than anything you can buy in the grocery store (factory farmed).
I'm jealous. :mad: J/K :D
Good post, Debo. I feed kibble breakfast and raw dinner - works great for my house.
12-11-2010, 02:22 PM #5
Good to know cause i usually mix kibble with raw ground beef,or trimmings of raw chicken and steak.I didnt know you have to serve
it seperate.Gonna have to switch it up!:D
12-11-2010, 02:53 PM #6
12-11-2010, 06:43 PM #8
- Join Date
- Jan 2010
- Northeast, US
Socrates gets Acana Pacifica kibble for breakfast and a raw chicken/beef blend for dinner. He does fantastic on it. I have gone from all kibble to all raw, and tried different combinations of both and this is the first combo I have found that has resolved all of his issues.
12-11-2010, 07:19 PM #9
- Join Date
- May 2007
- Vanderwagen, NM
I feed a partial raw diet. Kibble one day, raw the next. I do, however, mix raw hamburger into Umah's kibble sometimes. It doesn't cause her any problems, but if I try to feed parts of chicken/beef with kibble, it seems to give the dogs really bad gas!
12-11-2010, 08:36 PM #10
There isn't any real reason why you can't feed minced meat w/ground bones with kibble. That is a myth. To find out the truth why don't you join Monica Segals yahoo group, k9kitchen? She is the best. She has formulated a custom diet for my dog Lola who has ataxia and lupus. My boston is also on a diet created by Monica from her literature. The most important thing to remember is that you want the diet, what ever it is, to be balanced. You can feed an unbalanced diet for a long time but sooner or later your dog will pay the price, just like people who eat badly. They look OK until they get cancer or become overweight or diabetic or whatever. Micro nutrients are important. You can't just guess at this or that and go by percentages of meat and organs and vegetables. You need a spreadsheet or to hire someone to get it right. Otherwise eventually your dog may be in poor health. It isn't the same as a wolf who kills prey. Our dogs are at our mercy to get it right.
12-12-2010, 09:07 AM #11
Thanks for all the input.Reno is my pred boy with allergies and the bad skin that goes with it.I`m trying to avoid using pred on him the weight fluctuations are crazy plus the damage it could be causing to his organs.Zena is the fart master and both dogs have been doing well on TOTW.I was and probably still will try Acana and a Raw diet.
basically I have a lot more meat then i can eat in the next 12 months.I already share with my friends and neighbors.I trade some of the meat with a friend that has cash cows when he slaughters.Since we both process the meat our selfs I know theres nothing but meat in the meat.I had bought raw from a couple different places and even knowing what kind it was supposed to be I could not identify it for sure as being the meat it said on the label.
I`m meeting with a vet I met at the emergency vet place Tuesday that also practices alternative or I think they call it holistic medicine for Reno.I`m hopeing to come up with away to get Reno off the pred and the weight fluctuations going from 55-70 lbs that goes with it and keep the gas away from Zena.I will talk to her about alternating kibble and raw.
Has anybody used the individual consultation service on the dog food project.Seems like for a fee they will Taylor a balanced diet for you with or without your vets help kibble or raw based on your needs.
Thanks again for all the input.
12-13-2010, 01:03 AM #12
I agree with debo in regards to kibble/raw. I know people who feed both at the same time, but I personally, would never risk it. Especially since one of my dogs has the girth type that's prone for bloat.
One thing I haven't seen mentioned here is issues with pork. A lot of raw fed dogs I know have issues with it, some more subtle than others but for some reason they end up corn nibbling a lot. Just something to keep an eye out for. :)
Mordanna, the dog food project author is a wonderful woman. So helpful, so knowledgeable. Just a great woman.
My girl, not a pit bull, had severe food allergies. It seemed she reacted to any type of poultry in kibble. We made it through on Orijen's fish and Regional Red formula's, but ultimately made the full switch to raw over a year ago. We too went down the prednisone route due to severe skin infections (she was biopsied and confirmed it was an allergic reaction as well as the skin condition seborrhea) and I hated putting her on the harsh drug.
Since switching to raw she's had no reactions, even to raw poultry. Have you tried an elimination diet to see if it's a) a food allergy and b) if so what?
Good luck! I hope you find something that works for him!
12-13-2010, 10:10 AM #13
K9 love what`s corn nibbling?
i had reno alergy tested about two years ago.He was alergic to every thing.they wanted to start him on a series of daily shots.no gaurantee or promise that it would help.I just got the old well lets see if this helps.I have been to 5-6 vets.three flat out lied and said I see this all the time all what we need to do is.wrong.evey other said yea preds not good for him so try and use it as little as possible.wich i do. I tried benadryl it made him wired like a meth head.I tried hydroxyzine an anti histomine it made him hump zena all day not good because there both fixed.
i think i have tried every good brand of dog food known to man.Fleas and ticks light his $#@! up.Advantix stopped that.twice or three times a year something blooms and it`s pred time.
out of all the dog foods tried,grain free,patato and duck,fish based.TOTW seems to work the best and it does not matter wich flavor out of the three I rotate.I supplemented with iceland pure to try and help with his skin .it just seems to make him greesy.
Thats why I`m thinking of going the raw food and holistic medicine way.The weight fluctuation that pred causes is something else.with him being barrel chested you can really see it.at 55lbs he looks like king of the jungle at 70lbs he`s my butter ball.what were your high and lows?
Last edited by BlaznJon; 12-13-2010 at 10:15 AM. Reason: hydroxyzine
12-13-2010, 01:33 PM #14
Corn nibbling is when they use their front teeth and nibble their body, usually their front legs, sometimes, with problem dogs like ours, they'll do it all over their body. Roxy's bad spot is her butt, right above her tail. It's a good precursor for us when it comes to Roxy breaking out. If we hear her going at herself we have to quickly figure out what's made her react or we have a few days before her skin becomes infected.
Roxy's highs and lows on pred were difficult to gauge because she also has hypo-thyroidism (her allergies were diagnosed first) which at one point in time was likely to blame for a 15lb weight gain. Roxy at her biggest topped out at just over 100lbs, her ideal weight being 85lbs, her "normal" weight in and around 90lbs.
Poor Reno! :( So he was tested for atopic allergens than, which is a pain in the $#@! in comparison to just food allergies. I know some dogs with severe atopic allergies that wear shirts to help prevent contact with their skin. Some coverage is better than none.
Roxy also has severe reactions to fleas (she's never had a tick)... our or dogs related somehow?!?! lol.
I will say, with all of Roxy's issues raw has helped her immensely. She gets half of the prescribed thyroid dosage per day (she has had blood work done to confirm her T4 levels are good), no allergic reactions to any of her food and her skin condition which required at least 1 bath with her medicated shampoo per month has decreased to "the-dog-effin'-stinks-give-it-a-bath" lol. On raw you'd actually think she was like, a normal dog. Eating normal doggie foods and not requiring a handful of meds everyday. A friend with a dogue de bordeaux also recently switched to raw her dog to raw because of his issues (red dogs seem to have a lot of skin problems) and in a month she's noticed improvment.
I really hope you figure something out for Reno. He's lucky to have an owner that spends the time and money to help deal with his issues! :D
K9!!! Good to see you. :D
These kinds of allergies are so common, Debo has the same type. Pollen in the spring & summer, mold or something in the fall, fleas are the worst. I don't know about sensitivities to any kind of food, because I've never dug that deep. His symptoms are not severe, and are manageable without any medication. Every year it gets a little better, which I like to attribute to the holistic care. Good luck Jon.
12-13-2010, 06:21 PM #16
The immune system is very complicated. My bully has had ten different immune system disorders. Everything from immune mediated hemolytic anemia to cold agglutingin. When it looked like she had an immune disease of the central nervous system the neuro vet put her on prednisone and cyclosporine. Although it gave her pancreatitis it was a blessing in disguise. We had to stop the pred and cyclosporine. But then we were left with no treatment for her immune system. After stumbling upon an article on low dose naltrexone, (check it out on www.ldnscience.org) I decided, with her vet, to put her on this drug. Ever since then, Feb. 2009, she has not had a single immune system disorder. However her supposed brain and CNS symptoms did not clear up. Finally I discovered she had been wrongly diagnosed with CNS when it was actually hereditary cerebellar ataxia... tested through Optigene. So, while her ataxia still progresses, NO immune system disease is present since starting on LDN. If you are worried about pred. check it out. LDN is cheap and a very mild drug which does not have many side-effects at all. I believe it has saved my dogs life since she has systemic immune disease, (lupus) and now is seemingly in remission since Feb. 2009. Good luck with you immune diseases...
12-15-2010, 12:14 PM #17
the vet came over yesterday and we went over all of Reno records and what was done or given since i got him in 2008.She seems to think it`s more of a skin allergy then an immune system thing.
GSschell I asked about LDN and she didn`t think blocking opiate receptors would be an answer.
We are going to continue to give him the detox drops to try and flush out his system.i`m not supposed to give him any thing processed no more Chinese chicken,or salmon treats,chicken tenders when i travel with them.We are going to change him over gradually since I have all the meat available.I`m going to switch Zena over to raw too for ease of feeding both of them.
Shes is supposed to put together a diet for me to use with the meats I have and supplemented with vegetables and herbs .she said they availible in packs to mix in at the local raw feed place.
I`m hoping we can get him off pred for good.At least Reno got a full psychical and a chiropractic massage with out happy ending L.O.L.
Last edited by BlaznJon; 12-15-2010 at 12:17 PM.
12-15-2010, 01:20 PM #18
You too Debo!!!! How did the Debo vs chickens ever work out! lol :D
Glad to hear you have a good plan Blazn and just have to get started on it. Kudos to you again for taking the time, energy and spending the money to help your pooch get on the road to recovery. Not all dog owners are as good as you! :)
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