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Hot Spot? Or a genetic skin disease?
I don't know what it is but my female has these "hot spots" as some have called them, so does her son whom I kept from her last litter as do all his litter mates.
It's on top of their back and goes down to the tail. I ended up wondering what was under that fur, so I shaved off a portion and it looks like a rash or irritation. Not mange.
They chew and chew on it till it causes sores.
I have tried bag balm all it does is heals the little nicks they get from bitting.
Anyone ever seen this in their dogs or know of anything I can do to prevent this.
10-26-2010, 08:12 PM #2
Have you gone to the vet? If so what did they say? If not I would go.
10-26-2010, 08:37 PM #3
Demodetic mange is hereditary from what I know. You'll never know if it is mange unless you get her scraped.
Just like us going to the Dr. the vet always tries to administer drugs that in time will need a counter active drug. Don't really trust "Dr's" much.
But thank you kindly for the insight, I'll do some research!
---------- Post added at 11:00 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:43 AM ----------
After looking at many pics it could be or it couldn't be. Man some of the pics I seen were horrible. Like you said I'd never know till I had it scraped. But I believe I will save the vet bill for another time (such as cancer).
I found some info that may be of $#@!istance to anyone though here it goes:
Demodectic MangeDemodectic Mange and Inexpensive Treatment
Demodectic mange is a condition seen in both dogs and cats caused by different species of Demodex mites. It is interesting to note that Demodex mites are present on the skin of all normal animals, including people, and usually exist in small numbers within the hair follicles. Demodectic mange is therefore considered non-contagious since all animals already have these mites. Apparently, animals are not born with the mites but acquire them from their mothers in the first few days of life, during the nursing process.
If Demodex mites are present on all normal animals, why do some animals develop mange and most do not? Animals with mange may have an inherited or acquired immune defect that fails to keep the mite numbers in check. The result is a demodectic mite population explosion which not only crowds the hairs within hair follicles and results in bacterial infections, but the mites produce other substances that then further compromise the immune system. It is important to remember that these mites are normal residents on the skin (albeit in small numbers) and reflect an underlying important defect of the immune system. The proliferation of mites is therefore an effect, rather than a cause, of the condition. In young animals, which are most commonly affected with mange, the condition likely reflects an inherited incompetence of the immune system.
Not all young animals afflicted with mange are destined to be immunologically handicapped for life. A large percentage tend to self-cure when they reach immunologic maturity which may range from 8 months to 3 years of age, depending on the breed. It is estimated that 90% of pups affected will improve naturally if given supportive care. The 10% which are considered to have generalized mange should be considered to be immunologically crippled but can be made symptomatically better by using treatments to kill the mite population, and thereby lessening the incidence of bacterial infections.
This is where the cost to keep an infected dog may be entirely too much if you take the dog to a Veterinarian. A Vet will use a multitude of expensive treatments which usually include cleansing shampoos, antibiotic therapy, topical insecticides (Mitaban (Rx) or its active ingredient Amitraz), and immune stimulants. The cost for the Veterinarian treatments along with the cost of the office visits will add up to hundreds of dollars per year. Once again, I want to remind everyone that I am not a Veterinarian, but rather a long time Beagle kennel owner. I'll tell you what I have used and done in the past, you can use your own judgment whether you want to follow in my footsteps. This article is presented only as a documentation of how I have treated Demodectic Mange in some Beagles that I have owned at a fraction of the cost that a Veterinarian will charge for the expensive medications, therapies, insecticides, and shampoos.
Patchy hair loss in a dog can be caused by several things, but the two most common causes are ringworms and demodectic mange. The diagnosis of mange is usually not difficult if the skin is firmly squeezed (to express the mites from the follicles), then scraped with a scalpel blade, and the collected material examined with a microscope. The adult mites are often described as resembling cigars or alligators and the eggs are more tear drop-shaped. If scrapings are not done, the mites are easily seen on biopsy specimens within the hair follicle. If you decide to use a treatment (such as the one I will describe) to kill the mites specifically, you should do so with the $#@!umption that you are dealing with an immunologically handicapped animal. This warrants spaying or neutering of the pet and making sure it does not contribute to future generations of immunologically-disabled pets. If it is determined that your pet has ringworms, please check out my article on Canine Ringworms and Inexpensive Treatment. Also, the medication given for heartworm prevention has a second benefit in keeping your Beagle free of Demodex mites.
The easiest and most inexpensive treatment to kill the mites on dogs that are kept outdoors, and heal minor bacterial infections is a two part treatment. First, bathe the mange infected dog with an inexpensive dog shampoo or dishwashing liquid detergent while using a firm, bristle brush to scrub off any scabs or scaly skin. Second, dip a rag in used automobile motor oil and generously apply the oil to the infected area along with the surrounding hair. DO NOT get the oil in the dogs ears or eyes. This treatment will kill the mites that are causing the hair loss/bacterial skin infections, is safe to use on your dog, and the used motor oil acts as a moisturizer to help stop itching. This treatment will work in 98% of all mange infected animals, especially those without any major bacterial skin infections.
A second treatment, recommended by a Beagler friend of mine, that works extremely well is a dip called Mitoban and it only costs about -12 per bottle. It is very good and it works better than Paramite dip which is very good especially for fleas and ticks, and may work well on sarcoptic mange, but not demodectic mange. Simply dip your Beagle once every 10 days for three treatments. You should also use a good dandruff shampoo between dips if loose scaly skin is a problem. Cortisone cream is great for severe itching, and any of many topical antibiotic ointments are great for preventing or treating secondary bacterial infections.
A third treatment that works very well and is also fairly inexpensive is the use of Ivomec for cattle. This is the same medication talked about in the article called Canine Heartworms and Inexpensive Prevention. If you are going to buy the Ivomec for the heartworm prevention, then you might as well use it for getting rid of mange mites as well as ear mites. I administer a subcutaneous (under the skin) injection at the back of the neck, consisting of 1/10 cc of Ivomec for cattle per 10 lbs of Beagle body weight. I give one shot every seven days for 3 consecutive doses. Explained differently, that is one shot, wait 7 days, give a second shot, wait 7 more days, and then give a third shot. This is a very effective treatment for both mange mites and ear mites. If you are already buying the large bottles of Ivomec for cattle to use as a heartworm prevention, then you might as well also use it for this purpose when needed. This is a very clean treatment method, and for maximum effectiveness can be used in conjunction with the first or second treatment method listed above.
No matter which of these three inexpensive treatments you may decide to use, the main thing is to do the treatment and follow ups correctly and in a timely manner. If done correctly and in a timely manner, you will definitely see the mange spots healing up with hair growing back into the hair loss areas. At this point you can discontinue the treatments and only start them again if you see another episode of mange developing. Both of these treatments are only designed to kill the mites and thus stop the hair loss and bacterial skin infections. The dog will look healthy and feel much better with no hair loss, skin infections, or itching. The cause of the overpopulation of Demodex mites (mange) is a bad immune system which can be passed genetically to any offspring. REMEMBER, this warrants spaying or neutering of the pet and making sure it does not contribute to future generations of immunologically-disabled pets.
How is demodectic mange treated No.2?
Cephelexin 500 mg - 14 days , 2x a day.
Virbac Pyoben - Shampoo dog night before dipping.
leave on 5min then rinse
Now the nasty stuff!!! Mitaban dip concentrate amiytraz - mix 5.0 ml / 1 gallon water sponge on dry dog.
Demodectic Mange 2
By Race Foster, DVM
and Joe Bodewes, DVM
Drs. Foster & Smith, Inc.
Veterinary Services Department
Demodectic mange (also known as red mange, follicular mange, or puppy mange) is a skin disease, generally of young dogs caused, by the mite, Demodex canis. It may surprise you to know that this same mite lives, without causing any harm or irritation, on the bodies of virtually every adult dog and most human beings. These small (0.25 mm) "alligator-like" mites live inside of the hair follicles (i.e., the pore within the skin through which the hair shaft comes through), hence the name follicular mange. In humans, the mites usually are found in the skin, eyelids and the creases of the nose.
Whether or not Demodex causes harm to a dog depends on the animal's ability to keep the mite under control. Demodectic mange is not a disease of poorly kept or dirty kennels. It is generally a disease of young dogs that have inadequate or poorly developed immune systems or older dogs that are suffering from a depressed immune system.
What is the life cycle of Demodex canis?
The demodectic mite spends it's entire life on the dog. Eggs are laid by a pregnant female, hatch, and then mature from larvae to nymphs to adults. The life cycle is believed to take 20-35 days.
How is Demodex canis transmitted?
The mites are transferred directly from the mother to the puppies within the first week of life. Transmission of the mites is by direct contact only. That is, the mother and puppy must be physically touching, as the parasite cannot survive off of the animal. This is important because it means the kennel or bedding area does not become contaminated and therefore the environment need not be treated. Lesions, if present, usually appear first around the puppy's head, as this is the area most in contact with the mother. Virtually every mother carries and transfers mites to her puppies. Most puppies are immune to the mite's effects and display no clinical signs or lesions. A few are not immune and it is these that develop into full-blown cases of mange.
What are the signs of demodectic mange?
Individuals that are sensitive to the mange mites may develop a few (less than 5) isolated lesions (localized mange) or they may have generalized mange in which case there are more than 5 lesions involving the entire body or region of the body. Most lesions in either form develop after four months of age.
The lesions and signs of demodectic mange usually involve hair loss, crusty, red skin and at times a greasy or moist appearance. The mites prefer to live in the hair follicles, so in most cases hair loss is the first noted sign. Usually hair loss begins around the muzzle, eyes and other areas on the head. In localized mange, a few circular crusty areas will be noted, most frequently around the muzzle. Most of these lesions will self heal as the puppies become older and develop their own immunity. Persistent lesions will need treatment that will be described later. In cases in which the whole body is involved (generalized mange) there will be areas of hair loss over the entire coat, including the head, neck, abdomen, legs and feet. The skin along the head, side, and back will be crusty and often times inflamed. It will often crack and ooze a clear fluid. Hair will be scant, but the skin itself will often be oily to the touch. Some animals can become quite ill and develop a fever, lose their appetite and become lethargic. Patients with generalized demodectic mange need immediate vigorous treatment.
How is demodectic mange diagnosed?
Once Demodectic mange is suspected it can usually be confirmed by a skin scraping or biopsy in which the mites can be seen with the aid of a microscope. They are too small to be seen with the naked eye. The adults appear as tiny alligator-like mites. Remember that these mites are present in every dog so by themselves they do not constitute a diagnosis of mange. The mite must be coupled with the lesions for a diagnosis of mange to be made.
How is demodectic mange treated?
The treatment of Demodectic mange is usually accomplished with lotions dips and shampoos. Fortunately 90% of demodectic mange cases are localized in which only a few small areas are involved and can often be treated topically. A treatment that has been successful for years has been a 1% rotenone ointment (Goodwinol ointment) or more recently a 5% benzoyl peroxide gel applied daily. Bathing periodically with a benzoyl peroxide shampoo and feeding a high quality diet and a multi vitamin with a fatty acid may also help some dogs. Most of these localized lesions will heal on their own and do not require overly aggressive treatment.
If a dog develops generalized demodicosis more aggressive treatment is usually required. Studies show that between 30% and 50% of dogs that develop the generalized form will recover on their own without treatment but treatment is still always recommended for the generalized form. The treatment of choice continues to be Amitraz dips applied every two weeks. Amitraz is an organophosphate and is generally available under the product name Mitaban. It is a prescription product and should be applied with care. Humans should always wear rubber gloves when applying it to their dog, and it should be applied in an area with adequate ventilation. It is recommended that longhaired dogs be clipped short so that the dip can make good contact with the skin. Prior to dipping, the dog should be bathed with a benzoyl peroxide shampoo to help remove oil and cellular debris.
Most dogs with generalized demodicosis require between 4 and 14 dips. After the first three or four dips a skin scraping should be performed to determine if the mites have been eliminated. Dips should continue until there have been no mites found on the skin scrapings taken after 2 successive treatments. Some dogs develop sedation or nausea when dipped and toy breeds in particular are sensitive to amitraz. Half strength dips should be used on these sensitive animals.
Ivermectin should not be used in collies and similar breeds.
Some dogs may not respond to this treatment and the frequency of the dips may have to be increased or additional treatments may need to be instituted. Recently, two new products have been used to help treat demodicosis. These products are not FDA approved for the treatment of demodectic mange, but are being widely used by veterinary dermatologists and general practitioners with some good results. Ivermectin is a broad-spectrum de-worming agent that is available in a 1% solution for cattle. Ivermectin is the active ingredient in Heart Guard, however the concentration in Heart Guard is not high enough to be effective against Demodex. The liquid ivermectin is given daily and continued for thirty days after the mites have been eliminated. It should only be used under close veterinary supervision. Another drug, Milbemycin oxime, (Interceptor) has also been given daily and been shown to be effective on up to 50% of the dogs that did not respond to Mitaban dips.
Dogs that have generalized demodicosis often have underlying skin infections so antibiotics are often given for the first several weeks of treatment. In addition we usually recommend the dog be put on a good multi-vitamin/ fatty acid supplement. Because Demodex flourishes on dogs with a suppressed immune system it is wise to check for underlying causes of immune system disease, particularly if the animal is older when they develop the condition.
Prognosis and impact on breeding
Demodectic mange is not an inherited condition but the suppressed immune system that allows the puppy to be susceptible to the mites can be. Remember that all puppies receive the mites from their mother but only a few have ineffective immune systems and develop the mange. This sensitivity can be passed genetically through generations. Individuals that have a history of demodectic mange, and their parents and siblings, should not be bred. Through careful breeding most cases of generalized Demodicosis could be eliminated.
Can I get Demodex from my dog?
The various species of Demodex mites tend to infest only one species of host animal, i.e., Demodex canis infests dogs, Demodex bovis infests cattle, and Demodex folliculorum infests humans.
In conclusion, a few important points should be repeated. The mites are transferred from the mother to offspring in the first few days of life. The first sign of hair loss usually does not occur until after four months of age. Demodectic mange is almost always curable or controllable with persistent treatment except in rare cases with very immune suppressed individuals. The immune system condition that allows for the development of demodectic mange can be an inherited condition and breeding of these animals should not occur.
10-27-2010, 10:18 AM #5
If you have any low-cost clinics in your area, I'd research how much it would cost to get a skin-scrape there. One of my local SPCA's has a low-cost clinic where a skin scrape is $10. If it is indeed demodex, you can find some pretty inexpensive ways to try ad treat it such as follical flushing shampoo and liquid Ivermectin (found at most feed stores and online)
However, I would NOT be comfortable with applying used motor oil to my dog's skin.
10-27-2010, 10:28 AM #6
Oh good god, please don't put motor oil on your dog or try any of the at home "remedies"
Take the dog to a vet. A skin scrape isn't expensive, neither is Ivermectin to treat for Demodex (if that's what it is).
Just wanted to know if others have experienced this.
Thank you much.
Oh and I have heard of the used oil trick for years. Never had to "try" it or have givin that advice to anyone.
Last edited by chancey6; 10-28-2010 at 03:42 PM.
10-28-2010, 03:44 PM #8
Wow. You don't trust vets buy you'll put motor oil on your dog.
And seriously, a skin scrape is NOT that expensive. If you can breed dogs you should be able to pay for a damn skin scrape.
10-28-2010, 03:50 PM #10
10-28-2010, 04:04 PM #12
I suggest you actually TREAT your animal that you are BREEDING.
You are what is wrong with the breed today.
Last edited by CoolHandJean; 10-28-2010 at 07:01 PM.
10-28-2010, 04:52 PM #13
Sounds like you need to find a decent vet. And if it turns out to be mange, you need to tell the people who got your pups, and not breed that dog again.
While I'm not one to rush to a doctor if I get a sniffle, or break my hand like I did awhile back, if my dogs show symptoms of something as gross as mange, or anything that needs to be diagnosed before I can treat it, we're off to the vet.
An $#@!hole vet will prescribe you drug after drug. A good vet will help you find the root of the problem and solve it.
Although I seem to be one of the few people in the world who actually was able to find a decent vet. When I find a doctor like my vet, I'll be seeing him/her.
You'd be amazed at the fools who breed pit bulls who would use the motor oil trick.
10-28-2010, 07:02 PM #14Diamond Member
- Join Date
- May 2007
your wrong. I am not what's wrong with the breed today. kick rocks lady.
---------- Post added at 01:13 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:06 AM ----------
Also it was not demodectic mange. I simply asked for info, found some and threw it on here. I'm an old school kinda guy, but would never put oil on my dogs AS I ALREADY STATED.
This site is usless for info. People just wanting to argue or try and be "Politically correct" I've had Pit Bulldogs probably longer than most have been alive
06-08-2011, 01:34 AM #16
You are what is wrong with the breed, the reason that APBT have so many health issues is because people like you breed dogs regardless of health.
Your dog needs to see a vet, if you can afford to breed them you should be able to afford vet care for them, if you dont you are incredibly irresponsible and selfish.
It could be demodex, it could be allergies (food or environmental) or it could be a very serious and potentially lethal illness that is treatable.
I couldnt care less how many years you have had "pit bulldogs" that doesnt make you an expert obviously.
are you using a flea preventative? sounds like it could be a flea bite allergy
y r u breeding a dog with a skin condition?
It is common for dogs to munch the top of the base of their tail if they have fleas.
Any type of flea prevention?
If you're using Frontline products, it is better to use it every 3wks instead of 4wks for dogs that have flea bite allergies.
If you're already using a flea preventative on a regular and timely basis.... then I would want to get a skin scrape done to make sure that it isn't any form of mange. Skin scrapes are pretty cheap. You have to think 'why would my dog feel the need to munch an area so roughly that it causes self injury?' ..... it must be itchy for some reason. Could also be some form of allergy or nutritional need.
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