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  1. #1

    The Pit Bull Bible

    Educate me. Why are people interested in this book? I found this, written by the book's author, on the website where the book is sold:

    This book is essentially two separate books—all contained under one cover—and thus it is one giant book. The first section of The Bible contains everything you need to know on the proper care and maintenance of your dogs. Did you know that more dogs are lost to basic ownership incompetence than by all of the matches in history put together? Well, it's true, and therefore the first half of this book is dedicated to help you avoid the so many mistakes that get made, day-in and day-out, in the basic caregiving of these dogs. The second section of The Bible is everything you need to know about how to win, followed by everything you need to know to save your dog afterward. These critical chapters are then followed by everything you need to know about how to preserve what you have (and not lose what you have) by learning how to breed your dogs correctly—and thereby preserve the fine traits you cherrish for the next generation.
    obviously i understand why people are interested in the first section, but i'm sure this information is available in other sources. why give money to someone that tells you how to fight and win with your dog? this person is not educating you on the history of the breed; he is instructing you on how to be a "winner" in the ring. is this the kind of thing that pitbull-chat.com promotes?

    maybe the description of the book is misleading. if so, tell me. if not, tell me why a book that explicitly gives instructions on how you can fight your dog and win is useful and interesting to readers of this site.

    again, i understand how the history of the breed is useful, but this is different. this doesn't sound like a history lesson. sounds like an instruction manual.

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    Quote Originally Posted by stringerbell View Post
    Educate me. Why are people interested in this book? I found this, written by the book's author, on the website where the book is sold:



    obviously i understand why people are interested in the first section, but i'm sure this information is available in other sources. why give money to someone that tells you how to fight and win with your dog? this person is not educating you on the history of the breed; he is instructing you on how to be a "winner" in the ring. is this the kind of thing that pitbull-chat.com promotes?

    maybe the description of the book is misleading. if so, tell me. if not, tell me why a book that explicitly gives instructions on how you can fight your dog and win is useful and interesting to readers of this site.

    again, i understand how the history of the breed is useful, but this is different. this doesn't sound like a history lesson. sounds like an instruction manual.
    Well, I think the best answer to that question comes from Jack himself. He explicitly states in his book that dogfighting is illegal in the US as well as most other countries. He does not intend to promote or endorse the violation of any laws and advises people against doing so. However there are some countries where this is still legal and some dog owners in this country will contest their dogs against each other anyway despite the laws prohibiting it. So the purpose of the second half of the book is not to promote or endorse their activities but to educate those who are going to do it anyway on how to do so the right way, with the least possible trauma or abuse to their animals.

    Do you think it is better if, according to the HSUS, two dogs are thrown together to fight to the death? Is that what you want people to think or to learn? How else did this whole myth of feeding them gunpowder come about? People listening to the HSUS and thinking its true. I would rather people have all the facts and learn the right way for the dogs sake, than to learn how to waste a dog from the HSUS.

    If anyone is not interested in that information, he has another book where that info is omitted called The Dog Owners Little Black Book.
    http://www.johnkoerner.org/LittleBlackBook/

  3. #3
    I would rather people have all the facts and learn the right way for the dogs sake, than to learn how to waste a dog from the HSUS.
    there is no right way. both waste the dog.

    He explicitly states in his book that dogfighting is illegal in the US as well as most other countries. He does not intend to promote or endorse the violation of any laws and advises people against doing so. However there are some countries where this is still legal and some dog owners in this country will contest their dogs against each other anyway despite the laws prohibiting it. So the purpose of the second half of the book is not to promote or endorse their activities but to educate those who are going to do it anyway on how to do so the right way, with the least possible trauma or abuse to their animals.
    sounds like your standard $#@!-covering to me. "i don't want you to do this, and i think it's wrong, but i'm going to tell you EXACTLY how to do and how to make your dog win."

    If anyone is not interested in that information, he has another book where that info is omitted called The Dog Owners Little Black Book.
    http://www.johnkoerner.org/LittleBlackBook/
    sounds cool. one, question, if the Black Book covers everything except how to successfully fight your dog, why do so many people on this site consider the Pit Bull Bible to be essential reading? there's a thread about Jack's books where several people expound its virtues. enlighten me.

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    its essential reading because it tells you everything theres is to know about taking care of dogs

    about the other parts of it i have actually used some of the aftercare information on catch dogs that get hurt while hunting and it also has very good keeps in it that can be used for show dogs of any breed

    maybe if you should have posted this in the dog debates section, because it seems like all you wanted to do is argue about it

    if you dont like whats in the book then dont buy it

  5. #5
    its essential reading because it tells you everything theres is to know about taking care of dog
    s

    seems that other books do that too...without telling you how to fight your dog. like this one, mentioned earlier in this very same thread:

    If anyone is not interested in that information, he has another book where that info is omitted called The Dog Owners Little Black Book.
    http://www.johnkoerner.org/LittleBlackBook/
    maybe if you should have posted this in the dog debates section, because it seems like all you wanted to do is argue about it
    fair. i'd be okay if it were moved there.

    if you dont like whats in the book then dont buy it
    thanks. as i've made clear, i'm more interested in why others find this information so useful.

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    Quote Originally Posted by stringerbell View Post
    there is no right way. both waste the dog.
    Sorry you're wrong there. The whole point is to know what you're doing so the dog doesnt get wasted. But we can agree to disagree cause I'm not interested in debating the issue. You asked for enlightenment and I gave it to you. This thread is about where to buy the book and if it's a good buy. No reason to hijack it to get into an endless debate. Start a new thread for that.



    Quote Originally Posted by stringerbell View Post
    sounds like your standard $#@!-covering to me. "i don't want you to do this, and i think it's wrong, but i'm going to tell you EXACTLY how to do and how to make your dog win."
    There is nothing wrong with covering your $#@!. Still, this is a free country (to a certain point) and we still have freedom of speech (so far). It's not illegal to write a "how to" book on dogfighting. It is illegal to follow through with it and that is up to the person buying the book. It has nothing to do with the author. There is no one that can tell you how to "make" your dog win, that is up to the dog, but the odds can be stacked in his favor that he makes it out alive and receives good aftercare. That is the point of the book. Budboy has some good points. A lot of the medical care can also be used for hunting dogs or even pets that "get into it" at home when you cannot get to a vet.



    Quote Originally Posted by stringerbell View Post
    sounds cool. one, question, if the Black Book covers everything except how to successfully fight your dog, why do so many people on this site consider the Pit Bull Bible to be essential reading? there's a thread about Jack's books where several people expound its virtues. enlighten me.
    The Bible was originally discontinued and replaced with the Little Black Book because Jack felt that if someone was accused of dogfighting and they found this book in their posession they could try to use it as evidence against them. However, it didnt go over so well and most people just wanted the Bible so he brought it back and is now selling both. It's up to the individual to decide which book they want. Lets face it the Bible is a compilation of everything you need to know about these dogs. Without the dogfighting info its like a puzzle with a missing piece. Its what makes these dogs what they are. People want the info whether or not they will ever fight a dog and there is nothing wrong with that.

  7. #7
    This has been moved. :)

    ---------- Post added at 03:21 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:12 PM ----------

    #20
    We understand, that on occasion, there will be discussions about dog fighting. While we do not support or condone the illegal act of dog fighting, we understand the necessity of such discussions for the purpose of education only. Approved conversations would include discussions pertaining to current events in the news media or historical accuracies on the subject. However, dog fighting is not to be discussed in any other manner including, but not limited to: insinuating or accusing members of dog fighting for pictures they post or posts they make, pedigrees or dogs they may or may not own, etc.

  8. #8
    Sorry you're wrong there. The whole point is to know what you're doing so the dog doesnt get wasted. But we can agree to disagree cause I'm not interested in debating the issue. You asked for enlightenment and I gave it to you. This thread is about where to buy the book and if it's a good buy. No reason to hijack it to get into an endless debate. Start a new thread for that.
    i responded to something you said. you said something about wasting a dog...i responded...which is allowed. i don't consider that hijacking a thread (a thread that i started, btw).

    Lets face it the Bible is a compilation of everything you need to know about these dogs. Without the dogfighting info its like a puzzle with a missing piece.
    why do you need to know how to successfully fight your dog if you don't plan on fighting your dog? understanding the history of dog fighting and teaching someone how to fight his/her dog successfully are two different things.

    People want the info whether or not they will ever fight a dog and there is nothing wrong with that.
    again, information about the history of the dog and information on what you can do now to prep, fight, and repair your dog if it gets hurt in a fight are two completely different things.

    A lot of the medical care can also be used for hunting dogs or even pets that "get into it" at home when you cannot get to a vet.
    right, but that is pretty irrelevant to the discussion of this book. the fact is that a primary purpose of this book, in the words of its author, is to teach "everything you need to know about how to win, followed by everything you need to know to save your dog afterward." there are plenty of other resources where you can find info about how to care for your dog if it gets hurt -- that's not the purpose of this book.

    and i never said that the author of the book is breaking the law. just that he's helping others break the law.

  9. its not complicated.....if you dont like certain aspects about a book....dont buy it

    then again i suppose you could say....if you dont like certain aspects about a dog breed dont buy one....but people still do :rolleyes:

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    Quote Originally Posted by mr.clueless View Post
    if you dont like certain aspects about a dog breed dont buy one....but people still do :rolleyes:
    i agree 100%

  11. #11
    its not complicated.....if you dont like certain aspects about a book....dont buy it
    again, thanks, i really do realize that. if i don't like certain aspects of a book, is it okay if i talk about those aspects? if i don't like a book, i often still like to talk about it, sometimes more than books that i really love.

    ---------- Post added at 04:19 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:18 PM ----------

    if you dont like certain aspects about a dog breed dont buy one....but people still do
    haha, nice maneuver

  12. yes but whats the point....why not discuss films you dont like instead...or music ?

    ok you dislike the fighting aspect of apbt,s.....well if you own one then thats something you have to live with.....

    if i owned a greyhound and i didnt like racing i would just skip that chapter....whats the big deal....or just maybe your trying to create a bit of controversy where there is none ;)

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    Stringer, don't get your knickers in a knot. It's a book. Some you will like,some you won't. If you read the book without the part that offends you then you will see why people regard the book as very good.

  14. #14
    yes but whats the point....why not discuss films you dont like instead...or music ?
    i do discuss films, books, and music that i both like and dislike. this is pitbull-chat, though.

    ok you dislike the fighting aspect of apbt,s.....well if you own one then thats something you have to live with.....
    ???

    what do you mean by that?

    if i owned a greyhound and i didnt like racing i would just skip that chapter....whats the big deal....
    there is no big deal. just curious about what people find useful about this section of the book. so far i've heard that it's a part of the history (not what this book is about), that it's helpful for hunting (not what this book is about), helpful for household/outside accidental injuries (not what this book is about).

    ---------- Post added at 04:50 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:49 PM ----------

    Stringer, don't get your knickers in a knot
    knot-free over here, jim :)

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    Quote Originally Posted by stringerbell View Post
    i responded to something you said. you said something about wasting a dog...i responded...which is allowed. i don't consider that hijacking a thread (a thread that i started, btw).
    My bad. I thought this thread was part of the original Bible book thread.



    Quote Originally Posted by stringerbell View Post
    why do you need to know how to successfully fight your dog if you don't plan on fighting your dog? understanding the history of dog fighting and teaching someone how to fight his/her dog successfully are two different things.
    If you dont plan on fighting your dog then of course you wouldnt need to know. But some people like information for its own sake.



    Quote Originally Posted by stringerbell View Post
    again, information about the history of the dog and information on what you can do now to prep, fight, and repair your dog if it gets hurt in a fight are two completely different things.
    Would someone write a book on all aspects of greyhounds without including anything about racing? How about a compendium on Labs..should it also include a section on retrieving game birds or how to teach your dog to retrieve dead birds? Doesn't mean you have to race or hunt birds. But is tied into what the dog is bred for.

    Quote Originally Posted by stringerbell View Post
    right, but that is pretty irrelevant to the discussion of this book. the fact is that a primary purpose of this book, in the words of its author, is to teach "everything you need to know about how to win, followed by everything you need to know to save your dog afterward." there are plenty of other resources where you can find info about how to care for your dog if it gets hurt -- that's not the purpose of this book.
    That is not the primary purpose of the whole book. Its only a part of it. But like I said it is to help the dogs who are being put in the situation anyway.

    Quote Originally Posted by stringerbell View Post
    and i never said that the author of the book is breaking the law. just that he's helping others break the law.
    Once again he is not helping anyone do anything except save their dog if they so choose to engage in illegal activities, which are going to be done anyway whether you agree with it or not. :rolleyes:
    Last edited by scratchin dog; 12-12-2009 at 05:48 PM.

  16. Quote Originally Posted by stringerbell View Post
    ??? what do you mean by that?

    there is no big deal. just curious about what people find useful about this section of the book. so far i've heard that it's a part of the history (not what this book is about), that it's helpful for hunting (not what this book is about), helpful for household/outside accidental injuries (not what this book is about).
    personally i think your are just playing at being dumb.......

    not everyone who owns a greyhound races them....does that mean any mention of racing should be ommited from a book about greyhounds ?...i mean they are dogs with a racing background

    you want a dog with a fighting background....then accept that a book about them is going to contain parts about fighting......
    Last edited by CoolHandJean; 12-12-2009 at 11:10 PM. Reason: Fixing quote.

  17. #17
    not everyone who owns a greyhound races them....does that mean any mention of racing should be ommited from a book about greyhounds ?...i mean they are dogs with a racing background
    that's a spurious analogy.

    you want a dog with a fighting background....then accept that a book about them is going to contain parts about fighting......
    of course a book about APBTs should contain material about dog fighting. owners should understand the history of the breed so they can be good owners. if you don't grasp the difference b/w a historical education on where the breed came from and a dog fighting instruction manual, then...well, then nevermind.

    ---------- Post added at 06:46 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:43 PM ----------

    But some people like information for its own sake.
    fair enough. i can jive with that.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by stringerbell View Post
    Educate me. Why are people interested in this book? I found this, written by the book's author, on the website where the book is sold:



    obviously i understand why people are interested in the first section, but i'm sure this information is available in other sources. why give money to someone that tells you how to fight and win with your dog? this person is not educating you on the history of the breed; he is instructing you on how to be a "winner" in the ring. is this the kind of thing that pitbull-chat.com promotes?

    maybe the description of the book is misleading. if so, tell me. if not, tell me why a book that explicitly gives instructions on how you can fight your dog and win is useful and interesting to readers of this site.

    again, i understand how the history of the breed is useful, but this is different. this doesn't sound like a history lesson. sounds like an instruction manual.
    I just want to say that it should be important. Most people in today's society do NOT understand the fact that the matching of dogs from the yesteryears is for the Most part very different than how Today's thugs are fighting their dogs.

    I'm involved with a Pit Bull Rescue, I'm currently reading one of California Jack's books on the subject. I'm not reading it because I plan to fight my dogs, to $#@!ume that's the only purpose for me to read the book is just ludicrous. I want the actual Facts and to read of a Dogman and the ways they Actually conducted the matching is a whole lot better than to get your alleged "facts" from the media or HSUS or PETA. Bottom Line is I chose to read the book to know the Truth. I'm out for the Truth.

    I think it's good to get the truth out there and to not $#@!ume that the way dog fights happen in today's world is the same as it happened from the get go...when in Fact it was not. Most people don't realize you had both handlers in the rings with their dogs, that there was a referee in the the ring as well. It was a respected Sport back in the day where you even had lawmakers and even past presidents present. The UKC used to sanction them. It was a respectable sport. People should be seeking the facts, not spreading myths.

    I still have a lot more to read of the book and I am in NO Way, Shape, or Form intending on fighting my dogs. They are house dogs!

    This is the reasoning I choose to read the book. To learn. To get in the mind of the dogmen and to see what the reasoning was as to better allow me to understand what truly happened and why it happened.

    As an added note, I will NEVER Deny the History of the APBT nor Regret it by doing so I Deny and Regret my dogs and that will NEVER happen.

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    Good points about just wanting to know the truth about the sport and how it used to be done. Not because people (at least the relatively enlightened on this forum) "need to be educated" so we can "respect" these good old boys, nah ... for many people, that's not gonna happen.

    (and for those who say "you have to respect the dogmen or you can't love the breed" you are wrong; get over it.)

    But just for the fact that it is history. I want to know the good, bad, and ugly about any historical subject as it really happened, not some propagandist version of it. That goes for any subject, from dogfighting to WWII.

  20. Quote Originally Posted by stringerbell View Post

    of course a book about APBTs should contain material about dog fighting. owners should understand the history of the breed so they can be good owners. if you don't grasp the difference b/w a historical education on where the breed came from and a dog fighting instruction manual, then...well, then nevermind.

    you see some people would say....just because something is illegal where you are doesnt mean its illegal everywhere else,or shouldnt be done......
    and so for those people who do believe its ok to do, it makes sense to learn how to do it properly.......

    you cant dictate what people read or think after all YOU are the one who has a dog with a big part of its make up that you dont like....maybe you chose the wrong dog breed,simple.


    if i choose to spend my time in a crack den should i tell everyone to stop using drugs....i chose to be there !!
    Last edited by CoolHandJean; 12-13-2009 at 11:54 AM. Reason: Fixing quote.

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