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  1. #1
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    Why Did We Change The Bull Terrier?

    I was talking with my friend the other day, and we were talking about the old style bull terriers and the new style bull terriers. Please see pictures for example. First off, who changed the bull terrier and why? they had less exagerated heads, leaner bodies, and more muscle. Now they have massive dome heads, fat bodies, and zero endurance. Many bull terriers from big time breeders are bred with AI, because there males can not successfully mount a bitch, because they lack the endurance and strength to do so, no these breeders will not admit thats the problem with the breeding, but I have spoke to some breeders who told me "the male is too big, so he can not mount the bitch successfully very long." Why would we breed a dog bred to be the gladiator of dogs to be so heavy that he can not breed normally? I understand it is about preference, someone liked the look more and bred for it, thats totally fine. However, now days it is unacceptable if the bull terrier is not a heavy dog with an exagerated head, the dog is deemed a 'low' quality bull terrier. Why? Because it looks like the originally bred bull terrier? because it is athletic and fast and strong? Why does it have to be, wrong to have that kind of dog when isnt this all about preference after all? I love all bull terriers, all shapes and sizes, as long as they are happy, healthy sound dogs. I find it sad that people can brainwash others into thinking this new look to the bull terrier is the only high quality bull terriers, and that the old style, athletic ones are just junk. These people are charging 2500 for one of those exagerated dogs and most bull terrier breeders wont even look at selling you a dog, or leasing you a male if you dont have a big kennel name behind you, and if your dogs dont look just like theres, they litterally stick there nose up to you, I know because I have tried to work with these people. So what im trying to say is, it is very sad that the old style bull terrier is being pushed aside being considered a low quality dog, since this is the original bull terrier, and these new fat over weight dogs are now popular and indemand. They have zero endurance, and they can't breed normally and some cant even welp puppies normally because they are so out of shape they cant handle it. We should love all bull terriers equally, becuase it really is about preference, not about good quality dogs!

    I dont know why we changed the bull terrier, because there was nothing wrong with them to begin with. Look at this stunning white (pictured below) this dog is more perfect to me than any big dome headed dog out there, but that is just my preference...=) I like the dome headed dogs, I love there even heads and there wide muzzles, But I love an athletic, driven dog more, and I would love to have both.


    Old style bull terriers living in the today...told to be ugly low quality dogs by big breeders and much of society, but retains the old fashioned look. These dogs retain much of there great drive, work ability and muscular body frame that the new style can lack.



    The new style bull terrier bred for big bone, big exagerated heads, heavy bodies and little if no prey drive. These dogs can have drive, as they all originated from a driven dog, but it may take more work as they find it hard to carry around those big bodies.





    and some of mine and my friends dogs!













    As I like to say, we love to see the bull terrier breed with muscles that the dog has worked to get! Not muscles the dog has recieved from carrying around its own heavy body!!

  2. #2
    Seems like the goal with any breed is to completely destroy it to the point it is a non functioning mess.




  3. #3
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    yup exactly. To breed out everything it was originally bred for, and replace it with man made ideas of what they think the dog should be and act like. I mean how long before everyone does AI with dogs that dogs forget all together how to breed?

  4. i believe popularity can be the ruination of many breeds,when a breed becomes too popular it can attract the wrong type of followers.
    what always annoys me most about these people is they detest everything that made the breed what it is and have absolutely no respect for the history of their breed......but they still like to use certain phrases or descriptions just to add a little $#@!e to the breed..... the bull terrier is often decribed as the " gladiator of the terrier breeds " :rolleyes:....yet in reality the bull terrier is no more a gladiator than im an astronaut !!......do todays walrus type overly exaggerated cartoon character bull terriers really resemble " gladiators " ?
    fashion dictates the look of most breeds,breed standards are set to fashions....they all want something " different "....hence the great dane has been bred to the unatural extremes of size....the chihuaha the opposite extremes of size.....the staffordshire bull terrier was the victim of changes to their breed standard that by design had an adverse effect....the breed standard for height was lowered but the weight remained the same !! it doesnt take a brain surgeon to work out this would cause heavier lower to ground dogs.....so this was done on purpose for fashion....much like the ridiculous changes to bull terriers......unnatural extremes with fashion in mind......caused by people with no respect for where the dog came from,these dogs are victims of their own popularity.....remember a dog doesnt choose its owner !

  5. #5
    Usually once any breed starts being breed for show more than function that is when it is changed.

  6. #6
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    clueless..snap

  7. #7




    Wow, those are awesome pictures. Are there any that are that close to the original still around? The first pic was awesome as well, but just wondering how many people breed for what it was like in these pictures, if that is even possible?

  8. #8
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    I would have never known that the BT was supposed to look the way it does in those pics. I thought todays BT was the way it was bred from the get go. Good thread Huck!!!

  9. Quote Originally Posted by adamwilkes14 View Post
    I would have never known that the BT was supposed to look the way it does in those pics. I thought todays BT was the way it was bred from the get go. Good thread Huck!!!

    thats exactly what show breeders would like you to believe !...........just like most working breeds the true representatives of the breed look nothing like the useless caricatures waddling around show rings with ribbons and rossettes attached to them......the show ring is the downfall of all working breeds.

  10. #10
    hmmmm, i'm sure i've read a thread similar to this one

    The first pic to be posted is nothing like an old time BT either as you can see by pics posted further down

    Hucklebutt - your statement saying....as long as they are happy & healthy - i totally agree and the first pic you posted was a nice looking dog.

    Most folk on here appear to prefer the more agile BT and i see the reasons for doing so but even those are a far cry from what the BT origionally looked like.

  11. My question would be is there any way to get them back to how they were, or is it something that is just lost?

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by CoolHandJean View Post
    My question would be is there any way to get them back to how they were, or is it something that is just lost?
    Great question

  13. wow those oldschool BT are good looking

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by CoolHandJean View Post
    My question would be is there any way to get them back to how they were, or is it something that is just lost?

    Good question indeed

    My thoughts on this are that it is something that is "just lost" As these dogs were bred for purpose & that purpose is no longer needed i don't think you'll get many try to get them back to their origional form.

    Of course different sides of the pond also have different purposes but here in England there isn't the slightest purpose as baiting/hunting of any form is outlawed.

    I'm sure you'll get breeders who try to keep the athleticism within the breed (like the pic Hucklebutt first posted) for many reasons.....Good luck to them if that's their preference.

  15. Quote Originally Posted by Kingy View Post
    hmmmm, i'm sure i've read a thread similar to this one

    The first pic to be posted is nothing like an old time BT either as you can see by pics posted further down

    Hucklebutt - your statement saying....as long as they are happy & healthy - i totally agree and the first pic you posted was a nice looking dog.

    Most folk on here appear to prefer the more agile BT and i see the reasons for doing so but even those are a far cry from what the BT origionally looked like.
    the reason this is a very talked about subject within the breed is because more and more people are starting to think for themself instead of being blindly brought to believe that the show bred bull terrier is the way the breed should be....more and more people are disgusted with the way the breed has been destroyed and so the more people willing to accept this and try to change them back to a proud and worthwhile dog breed surely has to be a good thing doesnt it ?

    the fact the top photo looks nothing like a bull terrier of old only go,s to show how quality can take ages to build and a minute to lose ! the dog pictured is a result of around 15 years of intelligent,scientific breedings from very select individuals......they may not " look " exactly like the old time dogs did but they are a 1000 % improvement on modern bull terriers and are only the beginning stage of a much longer goal....and to me that is to be respected.

    ---------- Post added at 01:05 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:56 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Kingy View Post
    Good question indeed

    My thoughts on this are that it is something that is "just lost" As these dogs were bred for purpose & that purpose is no longer needed i don't think you'll get many try to get them back to their origional form.

    Of course different sides of the pond also have different purposes but here in England there isn't the slightest purpose as baiting/hunting of any form is outlawed.

    I'm sure you'll get breeders who try to keep the athleticism within the breed (like the pic Hucklebutt first posted) for many reasons.....Good luck to them if that's their preference.


    hunting of any form is outlawed here in england....do you live in a cave ??? :confused:
    maybe you need learn a little about a subject before commenting on it !

    as for the question of whether it is possible to restore the breed to its former quality...absolutely definately....it wont be overnight but of course its possible with sound genetic knowledge and high selectivity...it will take patience and dedication and they wont be bred or seen in great numbers......but hey,better to go to war with 5 lions than 500 sheep as the saying go,s :D
    the old time staffordshire bull terrier is a massive improvement on the show bred staffordshire bull terrier.......why cant the same not be done within the english bull terrier breed.......in the right hands the old time bull terrier will go from strength to strength.
    Last edited by mr.clueless; 10-20-2009 at 01:08 PM.

  16. #16
    Wow, I really like the OG. lol.

    Some of todays aren't too $#@! the eyes either, but I prefer the original. The original is always the better, IMO.

  17. #17
    I give you that Mr Clueless.... about hunting, i meant the type of hunting regularly spoke about on this forum, but as ever i knew you'd be on the band wagon.

    I did not say it was not possible to restore the breed to its origional state, i commented on how i thought it would not happen....there's a difference.

    I will not even attempt to carry this on with you as i have never argued your point about the health benefits other than i think your real opinion on fitness is extreme.

    Please do not categorise me, my dog is 14yrs old, lean & could still out run many BT's & Staffys, to insinuate i prefere looks over health mifs me somewhat

    You are mistaking me for someone who gives a monkeys about show standards..... or yours for that matter!

  18. #18
    I have read in several bull terrier breed books as to WHY the head was bred the way it was... and it is purely for looks and snobbishness. The 'show head' is completely non-functional... they can't drink, breathe, or play properly :(

    BUT - I don't think the "old style" head is completely lost, or the body, or the drive... after all, I DO have Clairece ;)


















  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kingy View Post
    hmmmm, i'm sure i've read a thread similar to this one

    The first pic to be posted is nothing like an old time BT either as you can see by pics posted further down

    No, but it is pretty close. None of our dogs, my friends or mine look like the old time bull terrier, I wasnt saying they do, just that the very first one resembles them the most.

    Hucklebutt - your statement saying....as long as they are happy & healthy - i totally agree and the first pic you posted was a nice looking dog.

    Most folk on here appear to prefer the more agile BT and i see the reasons for doing so but even those are a far cry from what the BT origionally looked like.
    It is my own preference that I like bull terriers with a more 'modern' bull terrier head, with a less thin muzzle, with errect ears and small almond shaped eyes but with an athletic build. That is what I like, I dont like so much the bull terrier, with matchstick legs and skinny faces, I like strong bone and thickness to the dog but with define muscle. But like I said, thats what I like, may not be everyones preference. I just really dont like to see fat, overweight bull terriers with no drive and no athletic ability, I like a bull terrier that can do anything a well driven athletic dog can do, AND can still preform what it was bred to do, by example, if a bull walked into my yard...I would hope they could return to instincts.

    ---------- Post added at 06:33 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:31 PM ----------

    Teal, your girl is absolutely fabulous. Well done on her!! Thank you sooo much for posting pics of this fabulous girl!! Is she spayed? She looks amazing in body condition and I can see the drive in her eyes, EXCELLENT!

  20. #20
    I was hoping to see Clairece in this thead!

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