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  1. #1

    Undershot Mouths??? Inverted Canines???

    Hi :),

    Undershot Mouths & Inverted/Converging Canines...

    Is this a common problem within the APBT breed, as it seems to be with the Staffordshire Bull Terrier breed. If so, why is it so common & why are inverted canines becoming a problem.
    I have aways been very curious to hear thoughts from APBT enthusiasts as it seems very hard to find a definitive answer.
    General ideas within Staffordshire community over here in Australia seem to suggest either of the below...

    1. Caused by breeding exaggerated short muzzles etc....
    2. Undershot jaws intentionally bred in, around the bull-baiting days, to allow dog to breathe while holding onto nose. (This I am finding hard to believe, and contradicts what is written in an article I just read on this site, which talks about the muzzle changing angle.) Some people seem to think that Undershot was always the jaw structure of the old bull-baiting dogs.

    And also, any ideas on how inverted/converging canines came to be would also be greatly appreciated.

    Thanks in advance.
    Morgza
    Last edited by Tonks; 07-13-2009 at 05:16 AM. Reason: Forgot something

  2. #2
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    Its probably a result of breeding just for show standards. Regardless of soundness.

  3. #3
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    I agree, sounds like bad breeding to me. Have your dog checked by your vet to make sure there are no other health issues though.

  4. #4
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    When you only breed for show and not for go this is what you get.

  5. #5
    Why have I never heard of inverted canines?

    Awkward sounding! Poor pups

  6. #6
    Inverted Canines? Never seen or heard of it. Could you post a picture please. Good topic. Where's vet tech when you need em? clmr

  7. #7
    http://www.animaldental.com.au/Inverted%20Canines.pdf

    Link with photos and description... sorry, it's a pdf

  8. #8
    Thanks, JG.

  9. #9
    Wow, that looks like it hurts, but I lol'd at the pic of the doggie braces. My friend has a Chi that has two upper canines on each side, one nut, and is wall eyed.

  10. ;) I'm suprised vick didn't use this as an excuse for his toothless dog

  11. #11
    that looks like it really hurts a lot, I have had braces and just the site of that made me cringe

  12. "Why have I never heard of inverted canines?"

    Probably because this problem is not as common within your breed, or maybe it's strictly a show concern.
    It seems to me that yes, its a result of breeding towards show standards, or exaggerations of those standards.
    For example, standard says "Short Muzzle". How short is short?
    How short before teeth start getting smaller too, airways more narrow maybe, & basically not enough room for everything...

  13. I've only seen inverted canines on an apbt I bred that had parrot mouth. We had his lower canine teeth removed, and was adopted by the vet tech's mom.

    I think undershot bites are going to be be common in any bull and terrier breed, a trait going back to the bulldogs. I've seen plenty of them in apbt's and ast's.

    I also think that the laid back muzzle to allow a better grip is a myth, a recent invention to explain a useless trait. I've even heard that the wrinkled muzzles on the bulldogs channelled the bull's blood away from their eyes. Yeah right.

  14. Quote Originally Posted by Leslie H View Post
    I've only seen inverted canines on an apbt I bred that had parrot mouth. We had his lower canine teeth removed, and was adopted by the vet tech's mom.

    I think undershot bites are going to be be common in any bull and terrier breed, a trait going back to the bulldogs. I've seen plenty of them in apbt's and ast's.

    I also think that the laid back muzzle to allow a better grip is a myth, a recent invention to explain a useless trait. I've even heard that the wrinkled muzzles on the bulldogs channelled the bull's blood away from their eyes. Yeah right.

    Thanks for your input...

    We've all heard some fanciful stories, there is a debate titled "Past to Present" going on right now on another chat site. Many people there seem to think that there is NO terrier influence, lol, others saying bulldogs were added to the terriers (not the other way around) to improve their lurchers, and this was the first mix of bull & terrier. Some seem to have a vested interest in the outcome of this debate...

    What I have read regarding the "turn-up" is that it allows the dog to breathe easier while hanging on, apparently, when bitten the bulls nose would swell and frequently choke the dog off. This was written in 1908 in NY Times, so can't be a recent invention.
    To me seems more plausable than undershot mouths being bred in for the same reason, and 2 centuries later we're still trying to breed away from it.

    Perhaps undershot is just an anomoly of this union between the bulldog & terrier, where we have strong muzzles & underjaws of the bulldog mixed with more snipey muzzles & only relatively strong underjaws of the terriers, & it can easily be thrown out of whack.
    I cannot see how undershot is a natural jaw formation, and I don't believe it was present in bulldogs.....

    the search continues:):):)


  15. #16
    I've never heard of inverted canines... but the undershot jaw is quite common in the APBT... I know alot of lines when they are tightly inbred throw an undershot jaw. I still don't understand why undershot is a "bad" thing .. it doesn't affect the bite at all.... I've seen many a game dog that was horribly undershot... some to the point they look like they have tusks.

  16. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leslie H View Post

    \ I've even heard that the wrinkled muzzles on the bulldogs channelled the bull's blood away from their eyes. Yeah right.
    they had a show on Animal Planet on the English Bulldog, they said that is the exact reason why the wrinkled muzzles were bred into the breed.

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