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  1. #41
    Mr Fox I hope you will continue to post!

  2. #42
    What I've noticed when comparing the different dogs I've handled is that the APBT's DA seems to be more prey/fight drive based, where the Am Staffs I've handled seem to show DA for different reasons... like dominance over another dog, or they might have trigger like resource guarding. It definitely seems like the DA is coming from different source alot of the time, at least with the dogs I've handled.

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zoe View Post
    What I've noticed when comparing the different dogs I've handled is that the APBT's DA seems to be more prey/fight drive based, where the Am Staffs I've handled seem to show DA for different reasons... like dominance over another dog, or they might have trigger like resource guarding. It definitely seems like the DA is coming from different source alot of the time, at least with the dogs I've handled.
    That's ineresting Zoe.

    I would agree, Veronica's reactiveness does not seem to be prey or fight drive driven; but very much about controlling space...hers and the other dog's. Not exactly dominance, because she isn't a confident dog...maybe about controlling the space to feel more secure because she isn't...

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by bamaman View Post
    Mr Fox I hope you will continue to post!
    So do I!

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by bamaman View Post
    Mr Fox I hope you will continue to post!
    Me too! Very awesome and informative post

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Jazzy View Post
    That's ineresting Zoe.

    I would agree, Veronica's reactiveness does not seem to be prey or fight drive driven; but very much about controlling space...hers and the other dog's. Not exactly dominance, because she isn't a confident dog...maybe about controlling the space to feel more secure because she isn't...
    I'd love to hear more people's experiences that have handled both. I'd definitley say for the Am Staff's I've handled, it's almost a ''defensive'' reaction where say with Tank, it's all about fun.

  7. #47
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    As far as I know the AST is nowhere near as passionate about fighting as the APBT and certainly nowhere near as game. However, the same could be said for a poorly bred APBT. However, as a "watered down" version of a fighting breed, most ASTs will have more of a tendency to fight than other breeds, such as hounds or gundogs off the top of the head. I am certainly no expert, but that's what I've gathered from personal experience as well as research and the experiences of others.

    ---------- Post added at 04:49 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:45 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by foxman View Post
    A lot of you people know my history. I use to fight dogs and was quiet famous doing so. Not that doing so is a good or great accomplishment but it does give me some knowledge over those that have never fought a dog. An Amstaff isn't usually a game dog. My wife's Amstaff died last year. We had him for years. I liked him very much. He was a good family dog. I bought several Amstaffs of several different famous bloodlines back in the day and tried them. I have seen lots of guys try them back then and when they got behind in the fight most of them quit. For approximately 75 years Amstaffs were bred for show and there gameness was never tested. So the gameness was bred out of them. In other words the Genetics was changed in them. In those same 75 years the APBT was tested and any that weren't game were killed. Those that were game when tested were allowed to reproduce. No matter what anyone thinks. This made quiet a change in both dogs genetics and their gameness. I had a famous dog called "Alvin The Dog" that fought two hours and twenty three minutes and made one of the gamest scratches ever seen in a dogfight. Earl Tudor was there at that fight and said he was one of the gamest dogs he'd seen in 40 years. He was 1/4 Amstaff. Yet the rest of his bloodline were bred from top game dogs in that era. I believe he got his gameness from the pitbull and his good air and stamina from the Amstaff. He had a beautiful body like an Amstaff. I think 99 percent of the Amstaffs will quit. Especially when they are cut down and when they are in a long fight. I didn't breed very many females to Alvin because of his genetics. I had that fear in the back of my mind that his pups might take after the Amstaff blood he had in him. Yet most of his pups ended up being good game dogs. I flew to Colorado and bought him. I watched him fight first and he acted real good. So I bought him. All this happened in the 1970's. I do not fight dogs this day and time. I quit when I was 40 years old. I'm sorry if this hurt anyones feelings. Yet the truth is the truth. I will probably regret writing this. Everytime I write something there usually someone gets real mad for me stating my opinion and cusses me. You can read about me on this web and also on my web at http://rayfox6.tripod.com/ Good Luck no matter what kind of dog you have. Randy Fox


    Just wanted to add, that was a really good post.
    Great way to explain the real difference between the two breeds to beginners.

    I also hope that you'll keep posting! :)

  8. All I can say on what I've read here is I've had 1 n he was a ace n I hve many friends that hve seen him n would tell u the same his name was black aka jojo dancer never seen any thing like him so for those who dnt belive u should not count them out is all I'm say rip black we miss u dawg

  9. #49
    Mr. Fox, I'd rather hear it from somebody that was there than somebody that's guessing.

  10. #50
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    Yup like Randy said some amstaff/apbt crosses can prove themselves in the game of chance but 99% or the time thwy will not reproduce a dog with the same ability. Many dogmen have matched these crosses with good results but the breedings proved worthless and entire litters culled.

  11. #51
    It all depends on the treatment of the animal. ASTs tend to be more "family friendly" than pit bulls.. but I own an APBT and he is no more aggressive than a lab puppy. The most harm he would ever do to you is kicking off of you while hes in your lap to go meet someone at the door.

    If you raise your dog right there shouldnt be issues. However thats never 100%. Some dogs just snap every once in a while. Treat them with love and they will return that love most of the time

  12. #52
    Uhm, no. Sorry but how you treat or raise an APBT, AST, SBT, BT has zero to do with whether or not the dog will become DA. I must have raised Bear wrong because he is seriously DA, or.. wait.. ya know what, it might just be his genetic predisposition.Another thing, what the $#@! do you mean the AST is more family friendly than the APBT? The AST came from the APBT and both should be equal amounts of family friendly, and if they arent they need to be put down asap.Again with that $#@!ed notion of raising a pit bull type right and that some how stops DA and high prey drive, uhh no. It is genetics and more often than not pit bull types do turn on, and do like to chase small things. Dont like it, get a new breed.Also, please explain this "snapping" thing to me, cuz all I read is "I know nothing about dog behavior and dont pay attention to the dogs body language" and "Hugs and kisses make my pwibble wove doggies and kitties" is that what that means? Because most of the time (unless its mentally unstable) a dog, regardless of breed, does not just snap and gives numerous signs and warnings before it does anything.

    ---------- Post added at 05:07 AM ---------- Previous post was at 05:03 AM ----------

    Oh and you do not own an APBT if thats your dog in your avatar, probably Amstaff or Ambully type

  13. Quote Originally Posted by pookie! View Post
    Uhm, no. Sorry but how you treat or raise an APBT, AST, SBT, BT has zero to do with whether or not the dog will become DA.
    How they are raised/trained/corrected certainly CAN make what dog aggression you DO have worse.


    Carla

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Sagebrush View Post
    How they are raised/trained/corrected certainly CAN make what dog aggression you DO have worse.Carla
    Yes, that is very true but none of those cause the DA. How you raise, train, or correct a dog whose genetic traits predispose it to dog aggression will not stop or start the dog aggression.You can train and correct the dog who is DA and make it follow your commands instead of acting on the DA urges as well. My dog is DA, now does he flip around, bark, or generally act a fool around other dogs that he wants nothing more than to hit..? No. Does that make him cured of his DA..? No. Did I cause his DA because of lack of or improper training, socialization, correctio ns, or anything else..? Nope. Thats what I am getting at, you dont cause it and you cant remove it, you work with it and around it because it will start due to no fault of your own and will be under control due to you proper training and containment.

  15. Is a dog considered "dog aggressive" if it gets along with other dogs just fine and only gets "aggressive" if it is directly attacked?
    Is THAT being "dog aggressive"?

    I've been around dogs that "act" all "dog-aggressive" .... and then it disappears when it really DOES have to go into action. THAT is REALLY what you don't want to see!

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