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Thread: Citric Acid???

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    Citric Acid???

    My dog eats a lot of fruit....a lot. She LOVES apples, pears, pretty much all berries, LOVES pineapples, and even enjoys oranges. Citric acid is in all of these. So....it would be pretty safe to $#@!ume that any food that has citric acid added to it would still be fine for a dog, correct?

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    Common Foods That Are Harmful Or Even Fatal to Dogs

    Many common foods are actually harmful or even fatal to dogs. Some of these (listed below) will surprise you. Others are things you would never give your dog purposefully, but now you will be more careful to not let them be in your dog's reach. And some just need to be limited to small amounts.

    Avocados (fruit, pit, and plant) are toxic to dogs. Avocados contain a toxic component called persin, which can damage heart, lung and other tissue in many animals. They are high in fat and can trigger stomach upset, vomiting and even pancreatitis. Symptoms of toxicity include difficulty breathing, abdominal enlargement, abnormal fluid accumulations in the chest, abdomen and sac around the heart. The amount that needs to be ingested to cause signs is unknown. The effects on dogs and cats are not completely understood. GI signs are commonly seen and should be treated symptomatically. In addition, the animal should be monitored closely for other clinical signs related to the cardiovascular system. (This information comes from veterinarians, the American Veterinary Medicine $#@!ociation, and the ASPCA Animal Poison Control Center.)

    Onions destroy red blood cells and can cause anemia, weakness, and breathing difficulty. Even small amounts can cause $#@!ulative damage over time. This includes onions or chives - raw, powdered, dehydrated, or cooked.

    Large amounts of garlic cause the same problems as onions. Garlic contains only a small amount of the problematic substance that is in onions. Just as with people, moderation is the key.

    Grapes and raisins can cause kidney failure in dogs. As little as a single serving of raisins can kill him. If the dog doesn't eat enough at one time to be fatal, he can be severely damaged by eating just a few grapes or raisins regularly.

    Tomatoes (plant and fruit) contain tomatine, an alkaloid related to solanine. As the fruit ripens, the tomatine is metabolized. Therefore, ripe tomatoes are less likely to be problematic for animals. Clinical signs of poisoning include lethargy, drooling, difficulty breathing, colic, vomiting, diarrhea or constipation, widely-dilated pupils, paralysis, cardiac effects, central nervous system signs (e.g., ataxia, muscle weakness, tremors, seizures), resulting from cholinesterase inhibition, coma and death. (This information comes from veterinarians, and the ASPCA Animal Poison Control Center.) (All parts of the plant except the tomato itself are poisonous to humans, although some people are sensitive to the ripe fruit also.)Tomatoes also contain atropine, which can cause dilated pupils, tremors, and heart arrhythmias. The highest concentration of atropine is found in the leaves and stems of tomato plants, with less in unripe (green) tomatoes, and even less in ripe (red) tomatoes. Nutmeg can cause tremors, seizures and death.

    Caffeine (from coffee, coffee grounds, tea, or tea bags) stimulates the central nervous and cardiac systems, and can cause vomiting, restlessness, heart palpitations, and even death within hours.

    Diet products containing the sweetener Xylitol can cause a sudden drop in blood sugar, resulting in depression, loss of coordination and seizures. Unless treatment is given quickly, the dog could die.

    Macadamia nuts can cause weakness, muscle tremor and paralysis. These symptoms are usually temporary.

    Walnuts. When dogs eat the seed hulls, they can get an upset stomach and diarrhea. The real problem is the fungus or mold that attacks walnuts after they get wet (from rain or sprinklers), which produces toxins. If the fungus or mold is ingested by your dogs, they can become very ill and possibly die. Signs that should alert you to walnut poisoning are vomiting, trembling, drooling, lack of coordination, lethargy, loss of appetite, and jaundice indications such as yellowing eyes and gums. Severely affected dogs can produce blood-tinged vomit or stools. Dogs can take several days to exhibit serious signs of illness.

    Chocolate can cause seizures, coma and death. Baker*s chocolate is the most dangerous. The darker the chocolate, the more dangerous it is. But any chocolate, in large enough amounts, can kill a dog. An ounce of chocolate can poison a 30-pound dog, and many dogs will happily consume more than this. The symptoms may not show up for several hours (and so might make you think all is well), with death following within twenty-four hours. A dog can consume milk chocolate and appear to be fine because it is not as concentrated, but it is still dangerous.

    Apple seeds, cherry pits, peach pits, pear pips, plums pits, and apricot pits contain cyanide, which is poisonous. While a few apple seeds may not cause a problem, the effects can accumulate over time if they are given to dogs regularly. Dogs should not be allowed to chew on a peach pit, cherry pit, apricot pit, or plum pit. Chewing can allow ingestion of cyanide. Chewing could also result in the pit being swallowed, causing continuous exposure to cyanide, or could cause the dog to choke.

    Too much salt can cause kidney problems. Also, large breeds of dogs that eat salty food may then drink too much water and develop bloat, which is fatal unless emergency treatment is given very quickly.

    Too much fat or fried foods can cause pancreatitis.

    Ham and bacon contain too much fat and too much salt, and can cause pancreatitis. Also, large breeds of dogs that eat salty food may drink too much water and develop a life-threatening condition called bloat. This is where the stomach fills up with gas and within several hours may twist, causing death.

    Raw liver or too much cooked liver (three servings a week) can lead to vitamin A toxicity. This can cause deformed bones, excessive bone growth on the elbows and spine, weight loss, and anorexia. Check the label of your canned dog food to be sure that it does not contain liver if you are giving your dog liver also.

    Wild mushrooms can cause abdominal pain, drooling, liver damage, kidney damage, vomiting, diarrhea, convulsions, coma, or death.

    Raw egg whites contain a protein called avidin, which can deplete your dog of biotin, one of the B vitamins. Biotin is essential to your dog*s growth and coat health. The lack of it can cause hair loss, weakness, growth $#@!ation, or skeleton deformity. Raw egg yolks contain enough biotin to prevent the deficiency, so this is not a problem with raw whole eggs. Raw egg yolks could contain salmonella, so you should get your eggs from a reliable source or cook the eggs.

    Grains should not be given in large amounts or make up a large part of a dog*s diet, but rice is generally safe in small amounts.

    Cooked bones can splinter and tear a dog*s internal organs.

    Dogs can't digest most vegetables (carrots, green beans, lettuce, potatoes or yams) whole or in large pieces. Potato peels and green potatoes are dangerous.

    Dairy products are high in fat, which can cause pancreatitis, gas and diarrhea. A small amount of non-fat, plain yogurt is usually safe.

    Pennies made from the 1980s to today contain zinc, which can cause kidney failure and damage to red blood cells. A dog that consumes even one penny can become quite sick, or even die, if the penny is not removed.


    Read more: http://www.pitbull-chat.com/showthre...#ixzz28vjm39gG

  3. Citric Acid???

    Very helpful post Beki!

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    Ahhh I gave my dogs onions last night!!
    Not enough to do damage though I'm sure it was a couple pieces with some meat they had on top of their dinner.

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    This is indeed a good post, however, I am aware of the dangers of these foods. Onions are highly toxic to dogs. I'm just curious about citric acid.

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    With all the research I've done, it says that citric acid can help contribute to bloat in dogs. However......if it's so bad, why would fruit be so good? I'm asking because I cook a "superfood mash" for my girl and I was going to start using pre-minced garlic to save a LOT of time and money. However, it uses citric acid as the preservative (way better than BHA, BHT, TBHQ, or Ethoxyquin). I just don't know if it's enough to really do any harm. I doubt it....but would rather be certain before using it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueKarma View Post
    With all the research I've done, it says that citric acid can help contribute to bloat in dogs. However......if it's so bad, why would fruit be so good? I'm asking because I cook a "superfood mash" for my girl and I was going to start using pre-minced garlic to save a LOT of time and money. However, it uses citric acid as the preservative (way better than BHA, BHT, TBHQ, or Ethoxyquin). I just don't know if it's enough to really do any harm. I doubt it....but would rather be certain before using it.
    Well, bloat is something you really don't want to happen to your dog. Fruit is good for humans, not dogs. Garlic is not good for dogs. Leave out the garlic, leave out the fruit, leave out the veggies in your super mash, dogs do not need it and some of those can be harmful and have absolutely no healthful benefits. JMO

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    I agree, I don't want anything to do with Bloat, lol. Garlic is actually incredibly good for dogs, you just can't give them large amounts of it. Due to the fact that garlic is the close cousin of onions, it is very, VERY commonly misunderstood to be bad for dogs. I too thought it was bad for dogs. I have done very extensive research on the benefits of garlic though, and it is an incredibly healthy herb to give to your dogs. Fruit and vegetables are also good for dogs, once again, you just don't give them large amounts of it. That's why all of the best dog foods contain fruit and vegetables, especially brands like Acana and Orijen. The food that I make for her is a mere supplement to her dog food (Orijen). She gets less than half a cup of it per day and it is made of yams, finely grated carrots, flax seed meal, brewer's yeast, fresh parsley, fresh ginger, fresh minced garlic, and a crushed up multivitamin. The entire thing ends up being roughly 100 calories total.

    I have also read (on this site as well) of quite a few people who use garlic as their sole flea and tick repellent due to it's efficiency. Meaning, they literally use no products like Advantix, Vectra, etc., relying completely on garlic to do the trick.

    This would be a very good link to read up on:

    http://ottawavalleydogwhisperer.blog...-benefits.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueKarma View Post
    I agree, I don't want anything to do with Bloat, lol. Garlic is actually incredibly good for dogs, you just can't give them large amounts of it. Due to the fact that garlic is the close cousin of onions, it is very, VERY commonly misunderstood to be bad for dogs. I too thought it was bad for dogs. I have done very extensive research on the benefits of garlic though, and it is an incredibly healthy herb to give to your dogs. Fruit and vegetables are also good for dogs, once again, you just don't give them large amounts of it. That's why all of the best dog foods contain fruit and vegetables, especially brands like Acana and Orijen. The food that I make for her is a mere supplement to her dog food (Orijen). She gets less than half a cup of it per day and it is made of yams, finely grated carrots, flax seed meal, brewer's yeast, fresh parsley, fresh ginger, fresh minced garlic, and a crushed up multivitamin. The entire thing ends up being roughly 100 calories total.

    I have also read (on this site as well) of quite a few people who use garlic as their sole flea and tick repellent due to it's efficiency. Meaning, they literally use no products like Advantix, Vectra, etc., relying completely on garlic to do the trick.

    This would be a very good link to read up on:

    http://ottawavalleydogwhisperer.blog...-benefits.html
    Interesting reading indeed. But, in reading that article it also states that the garlic should be a fresh minced clove. If your putting it in the mash coming in a pre miced state isn't that a null and void to any benefits that are touted?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beki View Post
    Interesting reading indeed. But, in reading that article it also states that the garlic should be a fresh minced clove. If your putting it in the mash coming in a pre miced state isn't that a null and void to any benefits that are touted?
    This is a valid point that I put real consideration into. I have not used this pre-minced garlic yet, due to the questionable citric acid. However, the big reason not to use pre-prepared garlic is generally due to artificial preservatives or salt. This particle brand is actually the only one I've seen that didn't use some form of salt in the ingredients. Most likely, this garlic will be scrapped and I'll continue to rely on the real thing. I just needed some opinions (or facts) about the use of citric acid. It's just very contradictory that it would be "bad" when it is a natural part of fruit which is utilized as a main ingredient in countless high quality foods. Acana has foods that use pears or apples as 20% of the entire formula. Both of these fruits contain citric acid. It's amazing how backwards the dog food industry can be sometimes, lol.

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    moderation is the key. you can give fruits but just a little here and there.

    i give fruits but as treats.

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    Raw carrots have very little, if any, nutritional value

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    Cooked carrots don't have nutritional value, raw carrots do. Phenomenal source of vitamins A, C, B6, K, Manganese, Fiber, and even Potassium.

  14. #14
    problem with raw carrots is a dog can't digest it at all, what goes in comes out the same, so they get none of the nutrients from it

  15. I too have heard conflicting things about foods that are often on the "do not give to dogs" list-like what was mentioned about the garlic.

    I was under the $#@!umption (I'm sure I read it somewhere, but couldn't pinpoint where) that vegetables in general aren't really great for dogs (so I would $#@!ume it's similar for fruits). Not that they do any harm, but that there isn't much benefit to them. They move through the dog's digest tract to fast for the body to take anything from them. Way back when, when dogs were wild-they wouldn't eat many (if any) veggies, and if they did it was likely from the stomach of an animal they'd killed. Being that those veggies had begun the process of being broke down-then at that point they were nutritional for the dogs. But unless we do something that helps the break down process-handing your dog a slice of bell pepper (or carrot) doesn't really do much.

    So two things come to mind for me when I think about that. Is chopping, mincing or any other sort of cutting up the veggie the beginning process of breaking it down-as would the animal's teeth that the wild dog was eating the stomach of, or would it be that animal's stomach enzymes that started the break down process?
    The other thing is. I've heard, been told, and told people to use veggies as treats-especially for dogs that need to loose weight. It makes them feel fuller, causes their body energy to break down what little it can while it's in their system, but they get no nutritional value from it. Which would be a win win for a dog needing to shed a few pounds. Does that mean dog foods that have veggies/fruits as an ingredient are using them as a filler?

    Oh, and a third thing. What happens to the composition (not sure if that's the right word...maybe "make up" would be better) of a fruit/veggie contained in dog food? When I open a bag of fish and sweet potato food, I can't single out a piece of sweet potato.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jamielvsaustin View Post
    I too have heard conflicting things about foods that are often on the "do not give to dogs" list-like what was mentioned about the garlic.

    I was under the $#@!umption (I'm sure I read it somewhere, but couldn't pinpoint where) that vegetables in general aren't really great for dogs (so I would $#@!ume it's similar for fruits). Not that they do any harm, but that there isn't much benefit to them. They move through the dog's digest tract to fast for the body to take anything from them. Way back when, when dogs were wild-they wouldn't eat many (if any) veggies, and if they did it was likely from the stomach of an animal they'd killed. Being that those veggies had begun the process of being broke down-then at that point they were nutritional for the dogs. But unless we do something that helps the break down process-handing your dog a slice of bell pepper (or carrot) doesn't really do much.

    So two things come to mind for me when I think about that. Is chopping, mincing or any other sort of cutting up the veggie the beginning process of breaking it down-as would the animal's teeth that the wild dog was eating the stomach of, or would it be that animal's stomach enzymes that started the break down process?
    The other thing is. I've heard, been told, and told people to use veggies as treats-especially for dogs that need to loose weight. It makes them feel fuller, causes their body energy to break down what little it can while it's in their system, but they get no nutritional value from it. Which would be a win win for a dog needing to shed a few pounds. Does that mean dog foods that have veggies/fruits as an ingredient are using them as a filler?

    Oh, and a third thing. What happens to the composition (not sure if that's the right word...maybe "make up" would be better) of a fruit/veggie contained in dog food? When I open a bag of fish and sweet potato food, I can't single out a piece of sweet potato.
    i like your thinking here.

    I am one of the people that gives fruits and veggies as treats. When i am feeding treats i honestly i am not as concerned as to the nutritional value. The way i look at it is when i eat treats myself they are extras to my normal food. I enjoy them they taste good leave me feeling full and happy. When I give my dog fruits and veggies he enjoys them they are special to him and just something extra. i would never include them as part of his diet and expect that he is really getting something from them.

    as far as being fillers in dog foods i think that is a controversial subject. to me as a PMR feeder I would say yes. they are not bad fillers but imo still fillers. non PMR feeders may not see them as fillers but essential because of the vitamins they could contain.

    aside from being fillers like you pointed out about the sweet potato food and not being able to see sweet potato that all comes down to rendering and how far down they are rendered. the fact that you can't see the ingredients has always had me leary about what is really in dog foods. they could tell me on the bag that there is something in the food but i can't see it so i don't know for sure.

  17. #17
    Most of Lily's treats are blueberry-based (damn dog goes cuckoo for blueberries); she also won't leave you alone if you're eating an apple or orange. Eating chicken? No big deal. Cheese steak sub? No big deal. But damn, sit down to peel an orange and you've got yourself some dagger eyes from a little white hellion. This dog loves fruit; quick, let me grab an orange while she's sleeping (maybe she won't notice ).

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    Quote Originally Posted by LilianaLove View Post
    Most of Lily's treats are blueberry-based (damn dog goes cuckoo for blueberries); she also won't leave you alone if you're eating an apple or orange. Eating chicken? No big deal. Cheese steak sub? No big deal. But damn, sit down to peel an orange and you've got yourself some dagger eyes from a little white hellion. This dog loves fruit; quick, let me grab an orange while she's sleeping (maybe she won't notice ).
    that is how Peanut is! I can leave a plate of my supper on my couch leave the room with him unsupervised come back plate is just fine nothing touched. try that with a piece of fruit or veggies he comes out of nowhere staring and drool everywhere.

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    Hahahaha mine is the same way. All dogs love dog treats, but she goes nuts over fruit. She only gets it as treats anyway. Mine also loves blueberries, lol. She used to have blueberry-based treats by nutro actually.

    As for the carrots, giving a dog a whole carrot isn't going to do anything. If you grate the carrots, they digest it easily. If they are finely grated (like mine) it is even easier. To say that "vegetables aren't good for dogs" is a pretty wild blanket statement to make. SOME vegetables aren't good for dogs, while a whole ton of others are great. GREEN vegetables need to be given in very small amounts because anything more can be bad for them. But greens like parsley, rosemary, basil, dandelion, etc. are all great for dogs. Another example of a great veggie... yams are absolutely phenomenal for dogs: for skin, coat, and teeth health.

  20. #20
    Vegetables actually need to be pureed or cooked in order for the nutrients to be accessible to dogs. Grating does not adequately break down the cellulose walls in order for the dogs to access the nutrients.

    The enzyme that dogs lack to process plant matter is cellulase, which is the enzyme that breaks down the cellulose walls of the plant. If the fruit/vegetable is pureed or steamed, the cellulose walls are broken down and the nutrients available to dogs. Adding the enzyme cellulase to their food can help them process plant matter as well. A whole, raw vegetable is what is recommended for dogs to lose weight as "filler", because the nutrients are not accessible.

    I feed PMR, but I do supplement with some vegetables. Riddle had a mast cell tumor last year, and some green leafy vegetables (the cruciferous family of vegetables) are helpful in $#@!ing tumor growth. So yes, I do feel that a lot of fruits and vegetables aren't "filler", but can be valuable nutritional additions. I don't think that dogs NEED fruit/veg, but I won't consider it filler either since they can gain benefits from them if they are processed correctly. Filler to me is something put in the diet with no nutritional value.

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