Pit Bull Chat Forum - Dog Debates http://www.pitbull-chat.com Debate dog related topics in a civil manner. en Sat, 21 Nov 2009 10:10:26 GMT vBulletin 60 http://www.pitbull-chat.com/images/005/misc/rss.jpg Pit Bull Chat Forum - Dog Debates http://www.pitbull-chat.com PitBull Trouble http://www.pitbull-chat.com/showthread.php?t=47039&goto=newpost Fri, 20 Nov 2009 09:57:13 GMT I came home tonight and found my moms little male rat terrior Bandit dead. He had been killed by my male pitbull Ceaser and Im loss for words at the... I came home tonight and found my moms little male rat terrior Bandit dead. He had been killed by my male pitbull Ceaser and Im loss for words at the moment about it. I know someone came into my house and let my moms little dogs around my pitbulls. This person should not of been in my house to be honest they just kinda like broke in. We had a cop here and he looked everything over and said it looked like my pitbull didnt really mean to kill my moms dog. My moms dog body was all in good shape just his neck had been bitten by one tooth, he wasnt shaken or anything and my pitbull is fine with my other male pit. So I dont know what i should do with him? ]]> Dog Debates KiraDnote http://www.pitbull-chat.com/showthread.php?t=47039 Health Testing - Necessary or Optional? http://www.pitbull-chat.com/showthread.php?t=46977&goto=newpost Thu, 19 Nov 2009 17:41:34 GMT The debate on whether dogs should be health tested before any breeding has been brought up in several threads as of late so I thought we could move... The debate on whether dogs should be health tested before any breeding has been brought up in several threads as of late so I thought we could move it here.

To get started:
Should all dogs be health tested before breeding?
If a dog is worked, does that mean it should be exempt from testing?
Should registries require health tests?

Feel free to ad anything else you want about health testing.

I feel all dogs should be health tested before breeding. I do not think that working your dogs is a replacement for health testing. I do think something needs to be done to encourage this from all breeders (whether they are breeding APBTs or Chihuahuas) and the registries are in the best position to do something about the sad excuses we see of pure bred dogs that people are buying up simply because they have papers.

I feel that there are enough good dogs out there that we don't need any more. Only the best of the best should be bred right now. To me that means any dog with poor ratings on health tests should not be bred because they are simply not the best of the best. Health testing is an important tool to use during breeding to determine what dogs should be used but it should not be the only tool. Passing health testing does not mean the dog should be bred. ]]> Dog Debates Tiffseagles http://www.pitbull-chat.com/showthread.php?t=46977 Shelter/Rescue Vs. Breeders http://www.pitbull-chat.com/showthread.php?t=46859&goto=newpost Tue, 17 Nov 2009 17:41:14 GMT I think most people assume that dogs purchased from breeders are better dogs, that is healthier, better performers, better temperaments, better all... I think most people assume that dogs purchased from breeders are better dogs, that is healthier, better performers, better temperaments, better all around dogs. This could not be further from the truth. Most breeders, in my humble opinion, should be banned--put out of business. They're just trying to raise some cash--off the backs of their dogs. They are not regulated by any agency. Breeding dogs lead quiet, terrible lives. ]]> Dog Debates LucyDog http://www.pitbull-chat.com/showthread.php?t=46859 Breed Elitist..... http://www.pitbull-chat.com/showthread.php?t=46661&goto=newpost Sun, 15 Nov 2009 04:43:41 GMT So, due to numerous, "I want to breed my dog" threads. This got me thinking about something.

In the genreal public, people don't see it as wrong to breed "Molly" to "Jed" because they're both yellow labs and cute, well behaved members of their house. They do this without looking at the future, the what-ifs and the breed, whatever breed they are dealing with, as a whole. They do it cause "Jed" lives down the road and is cute and convenient. They put no effort into researching lines to see how they will cross, doing health testing, working their dogs, or even making sure that they are decent representatives of whatever they are. They do this without a worry about the puppies or the complications etc.

To MANY of us here, it is common sense to check things out and do a little research on the lines etc. Make sure that they are a good representative of their breed etc.

In a "Pet" owners eyes, they just want a "Little Fluffy" to keep after "Fluffy" is gone. Even some show(Conformation only AKC) GSD breeders I know, breed dogs with KNOWN Hip Dysplasia because the dog is winning in the ring and is "gorgeous". Shit, Common sense often escapes "show-only" breeders as well.

Where does the gap come in between "Pet" and "Working" dog owners?

As an owner of a "Working" dog and of the mindset that you ONLY breed the best of the BEST, I don't get this. I've talked to "Pet" owners before that don't get it even though they are pushers of speutering, they do NOT get the need for culling(either method). They don't understand the different mindset of working dog people. I love my dog and have spent a ton of money on things to prepare him for breeding and stuff. Health testing etc. But if he would have NOT passed OFA, I would have neutered him and placed him. I love him but I got a working dog and that's what I want. I've been told that is heartless and cruel. That veiwing dogs like that is wrong. Mind you, this dog sleeps on my bed, gets toys, treats, awesome collars, training etc. This is not "just a dog" to me, we have an awesome bond.

The "Pet" owners don't view the "Working" dog owners as warm compassionate people but as puppy killing monsters or Breed Elitist, Paper snobs etc.

I find that the farther I train my dogs to titles the MORE I realize how idiotic most people I meet in pet stores are that ask if I "Want to breed my dog" cause they "gots a badass bluenose at home". I find that I do not have patience for these people and their shenanigans. I also find myself getting frustrated with "pet" owners that do nothing with their dog and then post on an internet forum cause it's eating furniture or something along those lines. Issues that anybody on this forum that are responsible and willing to learn can solve fairly quickly, BUT it is much easier to dump the dog cause of the "extra" work they might incur before the dog gets over the issue. This is where I feel that the gap is rather wide between the different classes of owners.

As a Breed Elitist....
As a Rule I do not feel that un-titled dogs should be bred
As a Rule I do NOT feel that Un-Health Tested dogs should be bred
As a Rule I do not feel that Sub-Par dogs should be bred with OBVIOUS blatant faults
As a Rule I do not feel unpapered dogs should be bred
As a Rule I do Not feel that the AVERAGE person should own a dog
As a Rule I feel that people need to research pedigrees and lines before breeding
As a Rule I feel that you need a good mentor BEFORE you breed
As a Rule I FEEL that there SHOULD BE a "Common Sense" exam given BEFORE owning a dog
As a Rule I think that breeders need to screen buyers better
As a Rule I think that breeders need to tell the general public the truth- They SELL dogs, not 'rehome" them or whatever new wave term that general public wants to use
As a Rule I think that Rescues should be held to the same standard that breeders are, no hypocritical bullshit required.
As a Rule I think that you need to KNOW your personal LIMIT and not take on more than you can handle.
As a Rule I feel that the "average pet" owner shouldn't own a pet rock let alone a dog

I this makes me a breed elitist then I'm proud to be one. I'm sick of seeing all the BYBs and even nowadays the "Rescues" making money on breeds. I guess this makes me a hard-ass, shitty, un-compassionate, crappy owner to the general public.

Signed,
A hardened, irritated, dedicated breed elitist ]]> Dog Debates VonKromeHaus http://www.pitbull-chat.com/showthread.php?t=46661 opinion about dogfights!! http://www.pitbull-chat.com/showthread.php?t=46206&goto=newpost Sun, 08 Nov 2009 17:13:35 GMT Hi,
The further I come in ' research' the more confused I am emotionally.
I read a lot of articles on Rio's pitbull site and saw all the great and famous champions and their story. I know the APBT is a fighting dog in its true form. All the great dogmen produced great dogs, one with extreme gameness and the other with great bite. Once in a while an Ace-dog comes along.
I asked a lot of bloodline questions before and you guys helped me out a lot. But all the modern dogs are from rolled-dogs from 30 years ago. I love these modern dogs, don't get me wrong, but how can we say a dog has game?
I am definitely against dogfights. The other day I was doing my normal knowlegde upgrade on the internet and saw a Russian site. They had a lot of vids and I couldn't resist my to watch. My stomach turned, I just can't watch that...But all the history articles ( and some books) are all describing the greatness of the dog during a fight.
Back to my question: I love these dogs, there is something heroic about these dogs. I myself used to train for muay thai boxing, but it's totally not the same...these dogs went for the kill.
Can somebody help me to adress these conflict feelings? ]]> Dog Debates Ruff http://www.pitbull-chat.com/showthread.php?t=46206 Is that your dog or a car? http://www.pitbull-chat.com/showthread.php?t=45811&goto=newpost Tue, 03 Nov 2009 22:56:20 GMT How do you feel about pet owners getting rid of the family dog to trade up to a shiny new "better" model? I guess I will never understand it. We've all seen it on these boards. Pet owner starts out with a lower caliber dog, typically a rescue or BYB model, possibly a pet quality dog from a responsible breeder. Pet owner then gets bitten by the show or performance bug, might even add a "better" dog to the family in the process. Now suddenly, the very loved family dog just isn't good enough. It's too this, or too that, maybe not enough blank. Family dog is now needs to be placed.

I just don't get it. How can somebody love a dog like it is a member of the family for years, and then just decide that it isn't good enough? Every dog that I've ever had has been not enough this, or not enough that, or the wrong blank. But, instead of placing them, they get neutered and stay. They might not be EXACTLY what I was hoping for, but all of them have had their place in the family. ]]> Dog Debates odnarb http://www.pitbull-chat.com/showthread.php?t=45811 man biters http://www.pitbull-chat.com/showthread.php?t=45790&goto=newpost Tue, 03 Nov 2009 18:41:42 GMT whats everyones opinion??? mines really simple you bite a person you get a bullet to the head there are very very few circumstances i could let... whats everyones opinion???

mines really simple you bite a person you get a bullet to the head there are very very few circumstances i could let it go but i refuse to have a man biter i dont care how good a performer or producer he is i wont have it.. but hey opinions are like assholes whats everyone else think on this topic ]]> Dog Debates Budboy88 http://www.pitbull-chat.com/showthread.php?t=45790 Euthanasia - A solution to human aggression? http://www.pitbull-chat.com/showthread.php?t=45341&goto=newpost Wed, 28 Oct 2009 15:14:01 GMT So far today I've stumbled on three posts that included information about people's 'pit bulls' lunging at people. So my questions are:
When is it enough that you know it's time to euhtanize? Do you have to let someone get bit, mauled or killed first?
Is keeping an individual dog alive worth further damaging this breeds reputation and risking the lives of members of the breed that are not human aggressive?
Is there a level of human aggression that is tolerable (maybe growling is OK but attempted bites are not)?

Here's another point. Many are arguing this breed should not be human aggressive and these dogs should be culled. However, please correct me if I'm wrong because I just started reading some of the history, but dogs like Chinamen, Bolio and others bit or went after people. Yet not only were they bred, they were foundations for well recognized lines. Does this mean that if a dog excels in the [] that HA is accepted, even aggression towards the owners/handlers and their family? If human aggression is not acceptable, should these dogs have been euthanized? ]]> Dog Debates Tiffseagles http://www.pitbull-chat.com/showthread.php?t=45341 Perception of the bully breed by other breed owners http://www.pitbull-chat.com/showthread.php?t=44888&goto=newpost Fri, 23 Oct 2009 03:24:16 GMT Is it me or does it seem like the majority of the other breeds owners showing the signs of fear when met with a bully breed on a walk? When I walk... Is it me or does it seem like the majority of the other breeds owners showing the signs of fear when met with a bully breed on a walk?
When I walk with Uma almost everyone with a dog wants to stop by and say hi. Well, she is still a four months old pup, so I guess it comes with the package :D. However, I see other people with bully breeds on the street, and when others with dogs approach them you can see the tension exhibited by the non-bully breed owners, i.e. starring at the other dog trying to read it and not paying attention to the conversation or their own dogs, snapping the leash where it's obviously not necessary, etc. ]]> Dog Debates lqaddict http://www.pitbull-chat.com/showthread.php?t=44888 Are some dogs better off in another home or put to sleep? http://www.pitbull-chat.com/showthread.php?t=44846&goto=newpost Thu, 22 Oct 2009 18:48:42 GMT This may seem like a harsh opinion but I am from the mindset that if an owner simply does not know how to take adequate care of their dog (especially... This may seem like a harsh opinion but I am from the mindset that if an owner simply does not know how to take adequate care of their dog (especially an APBT) the dog is better off put to sleep or put in more capable hands. I know as pet owners we like to think along the lines of "having a pet is a life long committment" but when it comes to some people, I do not think it is wrong for either of the two options I listed. This breed is in enough trouble as it is but when I hear about someone not being able to handle DA, or having a dog that is HA, or having dogs that escape on a frequent basis, we have to look at the quality of life for the dog. No matter how attached the owner may be to the dog, the owner is acting on pure selfishness by saying they would never give up their dog. Now, if a person is willing to change their ways and seek professional help, that is different.

More and more people are acquiring these dogs and they certainly have no right owning them. ]]> Dog Debates Deniselynn http://www.pitbull-chat.com/showthread.php?t=44846 GA- Debate inside/outside dog http://www.pitbull-chat.com/showthread.php?t=44441&goto=newpost Sun, 18 Oct 2009 05:00:04 GMT Wanted to see what everyone thinks. Should you allow your dog to stay outside. People always say that a dog should stay inside. I say its my dog and... Wanted to see what everyone thinks. Should you allow your dog to stay outside. People always say that a dog should stay inside. I say its my dog and as long as I give my dog a quality life... then I have the ability to determine if my dog stays in or out of my home.. plus I build them a privacy fence that costs over a grand! ]]> Dog Debates atlcustom http://www.pitbull-chat.com/showthread.php?t=44441 Which is better treatment? http://www.pitbull-chat.com/showthread.php?t=44340&goto=newpost Fri, 16 Oct 2009 21:43:18 GMT Which do think is better treatment? The treatment of an old-school gamedog who fought, but was treated and have recovery time, or the treatment of... Which do think is better treatment? The treatment of an old-school gamedog who fought, but was treated and have recovery time, or the treatment of Notorious Juan Gotti and dogs like him. Dogs that are kept in a kennel their whole life, who were only fed and bred, over bred at that. ]]> Dog Debates xgarrettxvx http://www.pitbull-chat.com/showthread.php?t=44340 <![CDATA[The Right to Protect One's Property (Pet)]]> http://www.pitbull-chat.com/showthread.php?t=43970&goto=newpost Mon, 12 Oct 2009 17:44:04 GMT In most states, you are permitted to protect your property against animals (either wild or domesticated). In a thread recently, a member here... In most states, you are permitted to protect your property against animals (either wild or domesticated).

In a thread recently, a member here made these comments:

Quote:
If that was my cat and you told me something like that you had better keep a close watch on your dog. You would find out that they make more dogs too.:mad:
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Teflon Don (Post 470935)
Right. Because the logical response to ignorant comments is to inflict physical harm on the offender's pet :confused:

Why does it seem like emotion as opposed to logic has been the driving factor in many posts lately? Embarassing...
Quote:
No..... that would be called protecting my remaining cat. If the owner made a comment like the one I was responding to it would indicate that the dogs owner had no remorse over the incident.You can call that embarrassing if you want, I don't give a rip what YOU call it. I would and will protect my own with deadly force if necessary.
Now...as most here know, I am all about one's right to protect themselves and their property. That said, seeking out and harming someone else's pet (even if that pet had killed on of your animals) does not qualify as defending anything. Seems more like a preemptive strike to me.

You see, in order to TRULY be DEFENDING your property, there must be an IMMEDIATE threat. If Fido kills your cat on Monday, you cannot on Tuesday wander over to your neighbor's yard to kill Fido in an attempt to 'protect your remaining cat'. Doesn't work that way, and as a result YOU would be the one in the wrong...both morally and legally.

If Fido wandered into your yard on Wednesday, THEN you would be well within your rights to defend your property (depending on state and local laws) as Fido has become an IMMEDIATE threat.

This, ladies and gentlemen, is LOGIC at it's finest...logic as opposed to emotion.

I post this for two reasons:

ONE- I would hate to see a PBC member in legal trouble as a result of 'defending' their property against an immaginary immediate threat.

and...

TWO- statements such as the above only perpetuate the image of the sterotypical pit bull owner...THUS further damaging the image of the breed itself. ]]> Dog Debates Thomas http://www.pitbull-chat.com/showthread.php?t=43970 <![CDATA[Ques. about dog whisperer's dog Daddy]]> http://www.pitbull-chat.com/showthread.php?t=43845&goto=newpost Sat, 10 Oct 2009 23:00:44 GMT I have seen a bunch of episodes and Cesar's dog, Daddy, is great around other dogs. I know most pit bulls tend to be DA. I don't have a specific question as much as I would like to bring this topic to debate. Do you think his methods work and he was able to train Daddy to not be DA? Or is he just one of those pit bulls that likes other dogs? I'd also like to note that he has a lot of pit bulls in his "pack" and they all seem to get along great.

My opinion is it seems like what he is doing is working, although I am not a fan of most of his methods. Also, I feel like we only see a snippet of the real story, so I am not sure if the dogs are separated the majority of the time.

I have one dog now and would like to eventually get a second, I was watching the show and it made me think about how my girl would be with another dog.

What do you guys think? I would love to hear your thoughts. ]]> Dog Debates jcunio82 http://www.pitbull-chat.com/showthread.php?t=43845 Hurry up and die ole man http://www.pitbull-chat.com/showthread.php?t=42955&goto=newpost Wed, 30 Sep 2009 08:10:08 GMT craven desires: hurry up and die old man (http://cravendesires.blogspot.com/2009/09/hurry-up-and-die-old-man.html) Read my comment!!! craven desires: hurry up and die old man

Read my comment!!! ]]> Dog Debates Marty http://www.pitbull-chat.com/showthread.php?t=42955 Man VS Dog/ PP http://www.pitbull-chat.com/showthread.php?t=42539&goto=newpost Thu, 24 Sep 2009 05:37:13 GMT
Quote:
Originally Posted by buddysmom (Post 450970)
That is not what I thought you were wrong about. I don't really know enough about all that one way or the other.

---------- Post added at 11:19 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:16 PM ----------



Is this the argument in your mind? If so are you saying the dog will be successful if it is 60 pounds, but will fail if it is 59 pounds or less? Very, very confused here.
He's saying he would rather take the dog as an opponent. ]]> Dog Debates Lisa Durden http://www.pitbull-chat.com/showthread.php?t=42539 Breeding and APBT?? http://www.pitbull-chat.com/showthread.php?t=41686&goto=newpost Mon, 14 Sep 2009 19:57:55 GMT I have read a few members on this board claim matching is essential to this breed to test for gameness which is what this breed is apparently all... I have read a few members on this board claim matching is essential to this breed to test for gameness which is what this breed is apparently all about. If we breed dog's that havent been tested then the apbt is just going to become a shell of it's former self.

So is it essential for only game tested dog's that have proved their worthiness be that ones that should be bred?
If we breed dog's that havent been matched will that ruin the breed? ]]> Dog Debates Pitlove http://www.pitbull-chat.com/showthread.php?t=41686 <![CDATA["Vegan" dogs?]]> http://www.pitbull-chat.com/showthread.php?t=41087&goto=newpost Sun, 06 Sep 2009 21:56:49 GMT Came up in another thread, that dogs (unlike cats) are not "obligate carnivores" and therefore can be maintained on a meat free diet.

Your 2 cents?

Here's mine:

Maybe a dog won't die without meat, but I can't imagine it thriving or being happy.

Regardless of the science behind it, the fact that some people need to project their vegan sensibilities onto their dogs, REALLY pisses me off.

It falls under my category of abuse/neglect. Denying your dog one of the things all dogs love best, just because of a personal philosophy.

If a person wants to be vegan, more power to you! Properly managed it can be a good thing for humans. But if you need to project it onto your dog then just don't have a dog. ]]> Dog Debates buddysmom http://www.pitbull-chat.com/showthread.php?t=41087 Split Thread from Nutrition: Vegan Dogs and the Ancestral Canid http://www.pitbull-chat.com/showthread.php?t=41096&goto=newpost Sun, 06 Sep 2009 21:49:04 GMT Sorry to go OT but we have a debate topic here.

"Vegan dogs."

If anyone wants to discuss this, join me in the Dog Debates section? :) ]]> Dog Debates buddysmom http://www.pitbull-chat.com/showthread.php?t=41096 Cull owners not bulldogs http://www.pitbull-chat.com/showthread.php?t=41036&goto=newpost Sat, 05 Sep 2009 16:40:41 GMT If you can't handle a dog why even own them ? first off these dogs are animals & have a mind of there own they are not slaves or robots. bred to be high strung & intense & built for performance in the box point blank. there is NO denying the history of the bulldog the chose nothing they are born & this is what they are bulldogs. Now MY biggest issue is the folks that SCREAM CULL any HA dog. IMO if you can't handle a HA why even own them because they all are HA in the right situation. most of the time it's the owners falt they got bite more blame goes to the owner then the dog remember they are only animals. there ain't one ped on a bulldog with at least 5 manbitters in it. but the difference is the guys with the dogs understand how to handle. you never here about a dog owed by a dogman escapeing & jumping on a kid or anyone in the GP. they are only animals & it is YOU that chose to keep them. humanizing of animals is the biggest downfall & will be the end of the bulldog for the GP in the U.S, ]]> Dog Debates ben brockton http://www.pitbull-chat.com/showthread.php?t=41036 Pitbull Vs. Petbull http://www.pitbull-chat.com/showthread.php?t=40902&goto=newpost Thu, 03 Sep 2009 19:59:33 GMT What's the difference to you? In your eyes what makes a dog 'worthy' of being an APBT or only worthy of being an APetBT?

I'm not talking papers or not, but does a dog have to be from game lines? actually matched? titled? And what is just not plain good enough to be labled 'A PIT BT'? ]]> Dog Debates Hallil http://www.pitbull-chat.com/showthread.php?t=40902 What do you consider a working dog. http://www.pitbull-chat.com/showthread.php?t=40245&goto=newpost Tue, 25 Aug 2009 13:23:11 GMT I was reading the post about dogs on a chain. Alot of people would write about how it was ok to chain working dogs. Then some one would respond with... I was reading the post about dogs on a chain. Alot of people would write about how it was ok to chain working dogs. Then some one would respond with how the dogs on a chain dont get socialized. I just thought I would throw the question out there. What do you consider a working dog. I was gonna post this in the chain thread, but decided I would use it to start a new thread. Plus, I am very isolated and bored so I though it would be fun to discuss/debate it. The following was going to be my post in chain thread.

If anyone is still reading this thread. What do you guys define as working dogs. It seems I have a vastly different idea of what a working dog is. To me working dogs do not get socialized. They certainly dont get "SNUGGLED" Heck alot of the "working dogs" I have worked with have to be muzzled around the handlers. The point of calling a dog a working dog(beside SOME DOGS working with disabled) is to not socialize them! It ruins their ability to perform their primary function,WORK! I think EVERYone on here is great! I truly mean that, I really do, but there is valid reason for alot of the things some of you disagree with. In some areas there has been talk of trying to outlaw chaining of dogs. I dont know about you, but I dont think I would want to live with 15 plot hounds(bear hunting dogs), or 30 pig dogs. Or human bite dogs(these dogs are amazing, we even have dog dog body armor for them with plates, that will stop a 7.62) Oh yeah, by the way APBT would make absolutely horrible bite dogs. It has been tried. Obviously, A bite dog is only on a chain in a VERY secure area.
You need to understand chaining your pet, and chaining a dog that was bred to work, and nothing else. They are 2 totally different things. Working dogs to me i.e. bomb, bite, SR, tracking. You have your protection dogs, but I dont know anything about them. Even your seeing eye dogs are supposed to ignore everyone but their owner. If you are trying to be sweet to these dogs when you see them out your wrong.
I guess working dogs are inhumane to most of you. Problem is I havnt met the guy that can sniff out a single drop of blood on a football field. Or a bloody terrorist in a football field size area at night. Extreme situations, need extreme dogs. They are not all pets, some chaining is the best way to keep them. Some need their own indoor concrete room, with a blast door.

I dont like seeing cute PET dogs all alone on a chain 24/7 either. However a dog bred for work only functions wont miss people if it hasnt known that many, and only gets rewards, and directions from one person.

I am not a handler, I do however work with them every day in the worst situations on earth. I would not want a lovable dog in any of these situations. I would want a ruthless beast. One that was on my side of course. I look fwd to your responses any and all. Havnt been doing much lately, and I am bored. I welcome the discussion. I will concede all valid points, and love constructive criticism.

Everything in my post's are strictly a hypothetical type situation.

probably should have started my own thread with this. OH I DID! ]]> Dog Debates cyrus http://www.pitbull-chat.com/showthread.php?t=40245 apbt evolving http://www.pitbull-chat.com/showthread.php?t=39770&goto=newpost Wed, 19 Aug 2009 00:15:37 GMT Apbt's today are used for hog hunting, but in the videos ive seen of it there are several cur dogs who bay the hog, and sometimes several catch dogs. To have a good catch dog one would, i assume, not want a dog aggressive dog. I would assume that breeders of catch dogs would breed out dog aggression in their apbt's.
I live in the NW and use my dogs to haul fallen trees out of tough to reach areas. I may sometimes have 3 or 4 dogs harnessed to get a log up a ravine. I desire my dogs to all get along and work together.
The highway patrol here has an apbt as a k9 dog, as well as the border patrol here at canada border.
The point is people are finding other uses for the breed, which must transpire in order for the breed to survive. People are no longer breeding apbt for game but for purpose, they are the ultimate working dog. Their desire to please and undying drive make them the perfect candidate.
The oldtime mentality of the breed should not be forgotten but left to the past, and the future should be explored. I believe in the working abilities of this breed and the possibilities of its future ]]> Dog Debates Pits From The Sticks http://www.pitbull-chat.com/showthread.php?t=39770 Continuation of Vick Debate from 60 minutes http://www.pitbull-chat.com/showthread.php?t=39739&goto=newpost Tue, 18 Aug 2009 19:09:41 GMT Please follow these instructions to our Heated Forum, where this thread was moved: _http://www.pitbull-chat.com/showthread.php?t=27619_ Please follow these instructions to our Heated Forum, where this thread was moved:

http://www.pitbull-chat.com/showthread.php?t=27619 ]]> Dog Debates Michele http://www.pitbull-chat.com/showthread.php?t=39739 Protest Michael Vick http://www.pitbull-chat.com/showthread.php?t=39023&goto=newpost Mon, 10 Aug 2009 14:47:12 GMT I am personally involved with the HSUS End Dog Fighting program. The program is great, the trainers are great, and the volunteers are great. However... I am personally involved with the HSUS End Dog Fighting program. The program is great, the trainers are great, and the volunteers are great. However the decision made by Wayne Pacelle to support Michael Vick is not shared with other HSUS employee's involved with this program. The decision was made to help Mr. Pacelle get the attention he feels he deserves because he is a selfish and greedy man. Anybody who is reading this, is close to the Chicago area, and wants to protest the decision Mr. Pacelle made against the recommendation of others involved please come and protest the following event where Michael Vick will speak.

Wednesday, August 12th at 4:00pm
Liberation Christian Center
6810 S. Ashland Ave.
Englewood, IL

The decision goes against everything the class is about and jeapordized the good work already done. Please show up andlet Mr. Pacelle know that his selfish and greeddy decision will not be tolerated. Thanks for the help.

Lucinda ]]> Dog Debates lucckyjack http://www.pitbull-chat.com/showthread.php?t=39023 Leaving NON-pit bull breeds alone together http://www.pitbull-chat.com/showthread.php?t=38701&goto=newpost Thu, 06 Aug 2009 01:29:52 GMT ... Is that ever OK in your opinion? Such as 2 or 3 non-terrier, non-DA, mature dogs being left alone together in a house or secure yard for... ... Is that ever OK in your opinion?

Such as 2 or 3 non-terrier, non-DA, mature dogs being left alone together in a house or secure yard for several hours at a time?

Or should ALL dogs (of any breed, age, or temperament) be "crated and rotated" or "separated or supervised" at ALL times, no matter the circumstances?

And if so, why? Because no matter the breed or dogs, they "might turn on each other?" Or other reason(s)? ]]> Dog Debates buddysmom http://www.pitbull-chat.com/showthread.php?t=38701 NFL reinstates Michael Vic http://www.pitbull-chat.com/showthread.php?t=37902&goto=newpost Tue, 28 Jul 2009 03:28:44 GMT http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slu...v=st&type=lgns
Michael Vick reinstated by NFL



By BARRY WILNER AP Football Writer
NEW YORK(AP)—Michael Vick(notes) is back in the NFL. Now all he needs is a team to play for.
Vick, free after serving 18 months in prison for running a dogfighting ring, was reinstated with conditions by NFL commissioner Roger Goodell on Monday. He could participate in regular-season games as early as October.
Vick can immediately take part in preseason practices, workouts and meetings and can play in the final two preseason games - if he can find a team that will sign him. A number of teams have already said they would not.
Once the season begins, Vick may participate in all team activities except games, and Goodell said he would consider Vick for full reinstatement by Week 6 (Oct. 18-19) at the latest.

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Goodell suspended Vick indefinitely in August 2007 after the former Atlanta Falcons quarterback admitted bankrolling a dogfighting operation on his property in Virginia. At the time, Goodell said Vick must show remorse before he would consider reinstating him.
“I accept that you are sincere when you say that you want to, and will, turn your life around, and that you intend to be a positive role model for others,” Goodell said in his letter to Vick. “I am prepared to offer you that opportunity. Whether you succeed is entirely in your hands.”
“Needless to say, your margin for error is extremely limited,” the letter said. “I urge you to take full advantage of the resources available to support you and to dedicate yourself to rebuilding your life and your career. If you do this, the NFL will support you.”
Goodell said he spoke to numerous current and former players and coaches as he weighed his decision and that the responses were “very mixed.”
“I do recognize that some will never forgive him for what he did,” Goodell said. “I hope that the public will have a chance to understand his position as I have.”
Vick, once the highest-paid player in the league, said he was grateful for a second chance.
“I would like to express my sincere gratitude and appreciation to commissioner Goodell for allowing me to be readmitted to the National Football League,” Vick said in a statement released by his agent, Joel Segal. “I fully understand that playing football in the NFL is a privilege, not a right, and I am truly thankful for the opportunity I have been given.
“As you can imagine, the last two years have given me time to re-evaluate my life, mature as an individual and fully understand the terrible mistakes I have made in the past and what type of life I must lead moving forward,” he said.
The announcement came after a busy first week of freedom for Vick, who met with union leaders and Goodell on consecutive days last week. His 23-month federal sentence ended when an electronic monitor was removed from his ankle on July 20 at his home in Hampton, Va.
He met with DeMaurice Smith, executive director of the NFL Players Association, last Tuesday and, on Wednesday, with Goodell at a security firm in Allendale, N.J.
Goodell said Vick agreed to undergo psychiatric testing, which determined that he was capable of returning to the NFL but needed continuing counseling.
He said keeping Vick from playing at the start of the regular season wasn’t a form of punishment, but a chance for the quarterback to gradually transition back into the league.
“I have thought about every alternative, but I think this gives him the best chance for success,” Goodell said. “We are not looking for failure here. We are looking to see a young man succeed.”
But Vick’s issues are far from over and he needs a team to call his own. So far, the owners of the New York Giants, Jets and Dallas Cowboys have said they had no interest in the 29-year-old quarterback. Neither do the Falcons, who officially released Vick in June.
Vick filed for bankruptcy protection last July, listing assets of about $16 million and debts of more than $20 million, and has a hearing about his plan to repay his creditors on Friday in Newport News, Va. That plan is built around his ability to make NFL-type money again.
He’s unlikely to command anything close to the 10-year, $130 million contract he once had with the Falcons, or to get endorsement deals after the grisly details of the dogfighting ring were publicized.
Vick pleaded guilty after his three co-defendants had already done so. They told of how Vick participated in the killing of dogs that didn’t perform well in test fights by shooting, hanging, drowning or slamming them to the ground.
Vick’s appearances at federal court in Richmond, Va., prompted large groups of protesters to gather outside. Many were with PETA and held signs depicting photographs of pit bulls ravaged in dogfights.
Still, there were supporters who wore his No. 7 jersey.
Vick has already taken steps to rebuild his image.
He met with the president of the Humane Society of the United States while serving his federal sentence at Leavenworth, Kan. He plans to work with HSUS in a program designed to steer inner city youth away from dogfighting. He was not permitted to work with the program while in custody.
Ed Sayres, president of the American Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals, said the organization hopes Vick “rises to the occasion and proves worthy of the rare second chance Commissioner Goodell has granted him.”
“Opportunities for redemption are rare - but that is exactly the opportunity that awaits Mr. Vick,” he said. —-=
AP Sports Writers Hank Kurz in Richmond, Va., and Rachel Cohen in New York contributed to this story.


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Discuss ]]> Dog Debates bullylover4ever http://www.pitbull-chat.com/showthread.php?t=37902 Debate: Do we allow dogs to attend? http://www.pitbull-chat.com/showthread.php?t=37711&goto=newpost Sat, 25 Jul 2009 14:03:44 GMT To celebrate National Pit Bull Awareness Day, MN Bully Lovers is hosting our first annual All-American Dog Fest.

It's going to be an expo-style community event. I have guest speakers, dog demos, a dog-themed art show, and about 45 exhibitor booths. The space I have normally accommodates up to 500 people.

My planning committee is stuck on one big issue - do we allow dogs to attend? Here are the highlights of the arguements so far:

PRO:

-We'll attract more people if we allow dogs to attend. If we don't, we'll probably have a much lower attendance rate.
-It seems self-defeating to have a dog celebration that doesn't allow dogs, especially the dogs that are supposed to be featured.
-If it goes as planned, it will be a HUGE opportunity to show people what great dogs APBTs are and hopefully get lots of positive press
-There have been a lot of events in our community (Mpls/St Paul) that have allowed dogs and there have not been any major incidents at any of them
-We lose certain activities if we can't have dogs (microchip clinic, etc..)
-We have a LOT of precautions in place to ensure things go well (limit the number of dogs in the building at any given time, extra wide aisles to give the dogs room, waivers for owners to sign, rules posted, not allowing flexi leashes, only allowing dogs that are UTD on vaccinations AND spayed/neutered, extra volunteers monitoring the crowd, etc...)

CON:

-It only takes one incident to undo all our work. Instead of getting in the press as a positive event, they'll report on that incident
-Even if it's a different breed that has an incident, the ABPTs will probably be blamed
-We don't know what types of owners will be attending


What are other peoples thoughts on this? Would you allow dogs (all breeds) to attend an event like this?

Our options are:

1) Allow all dogs with all the extra requirements listed above
2) Don't allow the general public to bring their dogs, but allow rescues to have dogs in their booths and allow people to pre-register dogs that are participating in certain events (ie dog costume contest). Also have a roaming "puppy patrol" of CGC certified dogs.
3) Allow dogs, but only if people pre-register in advance (this was suggested to try to "weed out" irresponsible dog owners who might otherwise attend.

My position is that it's not just MN Bully Lovers name on the line, it's our breed's name we're putting out there, and I want to do what's best.

Any advice? ]]> Dog Debates MNBullyLovers http://www.pitbull-chat.com/showthread.php?t=37711 Bully style or game bred?? http://www.pitbull-chat.com/showthread.php?t=37488&goto=newpost Thu, 23 Jul 2009 01:09:48 GMT Ive Seen Little Surveys and Competitions On other Forums and figure "What The Hell" Ill post one on here also. lets see how many responds we can get!

So Tell Me Whats Your Personal Style/Swagg Prefer?

~Bully Style (Big Blue Diesel Trucks)~ or -Game Bred (Original Game Dog Style)-??

and which do you own? ]]> Dog Debates Laced Wit Game http://www.pitbull-chat.com/showthread.php?t=37488 Which one? http://www.pitbull-chat.com/showthread.php?t=37431&goto=newpost Wed, 22 Jul 2009 16:56:48 GMT On saturday Im going over my friends house to see his new Rottie pup like about probauly in december Im thinking about getting a Rottie or Presa? So... On saturday Im going over my friends house to see his new Rottie pup like about probauly in december Im thinking about getting a Rottie or Presa? So if yall don't mind try and help me out here some rottie and presa pup pics for yall Im as well looking for a good guard cuz you know i live in the hood lol but heres some pics of some rottie and presa pups Rotties: now Presas: ]]> Dog Debates Cream is Pitbulls http://www.pitbull-chat.com/showthread.php?t=37431